What we can learn from the Yates tragedy (Ithaca barf alert)

Ithaca Journal ^ | Tuesday, March 12, 2002 | By ELIZABETH BAUCHNER

[Behind Liberal Lines]

In Texas, the trial of Andrea Yates is underway. Yates, who suffers from a severe form of postpartum depression -- postpartum psychosis -- admitted to drowning her five children in her bathtub last summer. She faces possible capital punishment if found guilty of murder.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

Interestingly enough, for you mavens of media bias, this "editorial" appeared in the "local news" (not editorial) portion of this Upstate NY newspaper.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

City of Evil bump

[austingirl]

What's wrong is that this woman wasn't insane when she PLANNED the murder of her children for the short length of time she was left unattended and then immediately called the police on herself. She knew exactly what she was doing. Her children fought for their lives, ran from her and she hunted then down, bruised them and held them underwater for six minutes each in vomit and feces-filled bathwater. I'm sick of the psychobabble excuses that no one is responsible for their actions.

[Peach]

Just saw an article in USA Today on Monday that physicians have discovered that men have hormones that affect their emotional well-being and stability AS MUCH or more than women are affected by hormones. Right now the men who go nuts and kill their families aren't given the benefit of the doubt, like women are, but that's going to change as a legal defense in the future. It's bad news.

[lonestar]

What's wrong is that this woman wasn't insane when she PLANNED the murder of her children for the short length of time she was left unattended and then immediately called the police on herself. She knew exactly what she was doing. Her children fought for their lives, ran from her and she hunted then down, bruised them and held them underwater for six minutes each in vomit and feces-filled bathwater. I'm sick of the psychobabble excuses that no one is responsible for their actions.

I'm sick of people who don't know what the heck they're talking about, pontificating.

[Behind Liberal Lines]

....what about his article is wrong?

As noted in my initial comment, my main beef was placement of thsi piece in the "local news" section, as opposed to the editorial page.

First, we have the writer more or less concluding that Yates committed these murders due to being insane. That may or may not be the case, but let's have the jury decide this. Until then, it's only an opinon, and should be on the opinion page.

Second, the writer conveniently blames every one but Yates for continuing to have children even though she was previously diagnosed with this condition: her doctor, family members even "the image of American motherhood."

Third, and this gets back to my original comment:the Ithaca Journal is an Upstate New York newspaper. Why is a Texas murder in "local news"?

[CharlieDarwin]

I'm sick of people who don't know what the heck they're talking about, pontificating.

Couldn't agree more with you. These posters have no knowledge about the state of Andrea Yates' mental wellness - just their usual bloodthirsty kneejerk, chest-pounding responses. Trained experts should determine the proper actions in such cases.

[headsonpikes]

"Trained Expert" bump!

And hopefully, government inspected and improved experts, at that.

[lucysmom]

"What's wrong is that this woman wasn't insane when she PLANNED the murder of her children for the short length of time she was left unattended and then immediately called the police on herself. She knew exactly what she was doing. Her children fought for their lives, ran from her and she hunted then down, bruised them and held them underwater for six minutes each in vomit and feces-filled bathwater. I'm sick of the psychobabble excuses that no one is responsible for their actions."

Absolutly! This is the behavior a "sane" person.

[general_re]

Well, I think the Journal will have some interesting editorials about this case tomorrow and the day after, considering what I just watched on Fox....

[drjimmy]

As noted in my initial comment, my main beef was placement of thsi piece in the "local news" section, as opposed to the editorial page.
It isn't in the "local news" section of the paper. It is in the feature section called "Parents Journal." Located right below an article reviewing a toy fair, it shouldn't be too difficult to understand that this is commentary.

First, we have the writer more or less concluding that Yates committed these murders due to being insane. That may or may not be the case, but let's have the jury decide this. Until then, it's only an opinon, and should be on the opinion page.
I read the article several times, and the author does not make the conclusion you claim. She says Yates suffered from postpartum psychosis, which is a statement of fact. There is nothing whatsoever in the article that states whether or not Yates should be found guilty or innocent because of this psychosis.

Second, the writer conveniently blames every one but Yates for continuing to have children even though she was previously diagnosed with this condition: her doctor, family members even "the image of American motherhood."
It doesn't help your case when a statement you put in quotation marks appears nowhere in the article. The author actually states that "Andrea Yates said nothing of her early delusions; she wanted to keep up the appearance of the perfect American family." Entirely different from what you claim.

Third, and this gets back to my original comment:the Ithaca Journal is an Upstate New York newspaper. Why is a Texas murder in "local news"?
Since it isn't in "local news" to begin with, your original statement is incorrect. Even if it was in "local news," the article isn't even about a Texas murder. It is about postpartum depression, using the Andrea Yates example of why it should be taken seriously. Presumably, even some folks in the City of Evil suffer from it.

[general_re]

I'd be pretty depressed much of the time if I lived in Ithaca. Jumping off those gorges must look pretty tempting to otherwise sane people after a while ;)

[ez]

What's wrong is that this woman wasn't insane when she PLANNED the murder of her children for the short length of time she was left unattended and then immediately called the police on herself. She knew exactly what she was doing. Her children fought for their lives, ran from her and she hunted then down, bruised them and held them underwater for six minutes each in vomit and feces-filled bathwater. I'm sick of the psychobabble excuses that no one is responsible for their actions.

I'm with you on this one. God said Thou shalt not kill. he didn't offer exemptions for one's "state of mind."

[rrr51]

Your right, I have no idea about the state of mind of Andrea Yates, but I do know the state of mind of my own wife after she gave birth. Post-partum depression is a very real and terrify thing. It is not psychobabble or excuse making. I can not put myself in the place of a person undergoing it. I do know that my wife was a different person in the months after giving birth. The Yates are irresponsible for not taking it more seriously. It's a very dangerous condition.

[theoutsideman]

What a complete load of horse shit. Look, it is the act and only the act. The reason for the act is irrelavent. In this case the act is the vicious murder of five defenseless children. Justice demands the death penalty. You may cast a deaf ear to all this other nonsense.

[CharlieDarwin]

"And hopefully, government inspected and improved experts, at that.

One would hope that they would be degreed, regulated and certified, as are psychiatrists, ALL of whom (defense and prosecution) who actually talked to the woman in the time period encompassing her crime, testified that she was psychotic when she drowned her children and beforehand too. The prosecutor did not challenge this finding.

There are humane yet firm incarceration and treatment alternatives available. You know, the sort that a civilized society imposes, as opposed to some sort of ignorant frontier-style vengeance. I would hope that she would be sterilized as well.

[headsonpikes]

"Degreed, regulated, and certified..."

Sure inspires ME with confidence. LOL!

Psychiatry is an uncertain science, at best. I'm not too charmed by its current uses.

A former client of mine was a forensic shrink attached to the prison system in Canada. His tales of interviews of these violent psycho- and socio-paths convinced me that these people should NEVER leave custody alive.

Insanity, booze, and drugs should never be used as excuses for 'treatment' instead of punishment.

JMHO.

[CharlieDarwin]

A former client of mine was a forensic shrink attached to the prison system in Canada. His tales of interviews of these violent psycho- and socio-paths convinced me that these people should NEVER leave custody alive.

I expect that your client's tales were pretty accurate. But I doubt that Andrea Yates would ever have faced a murder trial in Canada, since she is neither a psychopath or a sociopath. She is probably severely schizophrenic, and may never be "cured", so institutionalization is in order. Her condition would have been recognized and she would be in a mental hospital instead of a courtroom. JMHO, too.

[NativeNewYorker]

The author seems to be in the birthing biz:

http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/news01/ithaca_newspaper_article01.htm

http://www.geocities.com/rasmama/

This is all well-and-good, but I still think the penalty for non-self-defense, pre-meditated murder should be swift capital punishment.