U.S. Soldiers Killed In Afghanistan..BREAKING

MSNBC | 03-02-02 | my favorite headache

[BradyLS]

If we flushed out a force that big, it shouldn't be too diffiuclt to pulverize them again with daisy cutter drops and B-52 strikes. We've been outnumbered the entire time we've been there. This time we went in more of a set-piece fashion and found out they still have some fight left. Time to go back to the methods worked or learn some new tricks.

Someone mentioned that this is what we get for letting the warlords release their prisoners. Could be. I say let's not mess around this time. Let's finish them off. They had their chance.

But here's my question: Just how many of these people do they have left? After throwing what we had at them in December, I'm a little surprised they still have this much fight. Are the losses being replaced by Muslim fighters from other parts of the Islamic world?

[Polybius]

By comparison, big gains in the war from October through December came mostly in operations in which Afghan allies fought on the ground with small teams of U.S. special forces calling in bombing targets for warplanes.

The objective of first phase of the war was to dislodge the Taliban and Al Qaeda from their strongholds and to gain ground.

The current phase of the war is to surround the remaining Taliban and Al Qaeda and to annihilate them. (This phase is the phase that Colin Powell unfortunately talked Bush Senior into skipping during the Gulf War.)

Battles of annihilation will always be much nastier affairs than battles fought to drive an enemy from the field. Our Afghan allies had great enthusiasm for the latter but, once they controlled the cities, have no motivation or stomach for the former. Tora Bora showed that our Afghan allies are perfectly content to let the enemy slink away in order to avoid a battle of annihilation.

Unfortunately, the dirty business of this battle of annihilation will be one that U.S. infantry will have to shoulder itself.

If I were the commander, my strategy would be to use airpower guided by SF and Predator spotters against the center of the enemy concentration and to deploy well entrenched U.S. infantry along every possible escape route to kill any who try to escape. I would be patient and would not push infantry assaults into the enemy center. Once we have the enemy surrounded, time is on our side and our infantry should fight on ground and positions of our own choosing.

[mystery-ak]

Rest easy, American Spirit, my son and probably a lot of other brave Americans is leaving for basic next week, Should be a little while before your *number* comes up.

[Dog]

When those warlords released those Taliban.....we all knew this would happen.

This wont be the only death I am afraid...

Karzi better get this allies of his under control instead of running all over the place saying this is not his problem..

We put him there we can remove him..

[blam]

"Unfortunately, the dirty business of this battle of annihilation will be one that U.S. infantry will have to shoulder itself."

Sounds like that is what's about to happen. Big Red is going in. Expect casualties on both sides to go up sharply.

[gwynapnudd]

"Yes, time to get out the daisy cutters."

I think some folks here actually believe that you can fight a mountain guerrilla war with daisy cutters. We're in for a long nightmare in Afghanistan.

The Soviets held Kabul with a puppet government for ten tears using some of the most ruthless tactics ever seen in the history of warfare. Think our puppet government will last that long? We haven't even faced anti-aircraft missiles yet, but does anyone really think we won't. Most of the Russian mercenaries who were "the northern alliance" are back in Chechnya, where it's open season on anything with turban or beard.

If hundreds of thousands of terrorists were trained in Al Quaida camps, we got only a handful of them. Bin Laden is still out there receiving dialysis. And Mullah Omar is still on his prayer rug thrice a day. The only arrest of consequence appears to be by "axis of evil" Iran, who appear to have Ahman Al Zahwari in custody.

It's time for the summer fighting season in Anarchystan. Think we'll be able to hold the Unocal pipeline route without a massive commitment of troops and air resources in a time of endless war against multiple front elusive enemies? Do you think the Afghans want US there?

You think we won in Afghanistan?

[Libertarian_4_eva]

This is one of the best/worst parts of the internet. News travels so fast that people go insane wanting more info and better harder facts. I bet before the battle is over creampuff democrats and republicans will want to pull our troops out. Cowards.

[TomGuy]

American Warplanes, Afghan Forces Launch Major Offensive Against Al-Qaida in Eastern Mountains

By Kathy Gannon Associated Press Writer

Published: Mar 2, 2002

GARDEZ, Afghanistan (AP)- In the biggest U.S.-led ground operation this year, U.S. and Afghan troops backed by U.S. jets Saturday attacked Taliban and al-Qaida forces regrouping in eastern Afghanistan. One American was killed and a number were injured, the Pentagon said.

Two Afghan fighters were also killed, the Pentagon added. The first day's attack made little headway in dislodging Taliban and al-Qaida fighters who fought back with artillery, mortars and heavy machine guns, Afghan officials said.

The casualties came during the largest U.S.-led ground operation in the anti-terror campaign since the December attack on the Tora-Bora cave complex, U.S. military officials said.

The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the battle plan called for a combination of American Special Forces and Army 101st Airborne assault troops fighting alongside Afghan allies on the ground with U.S. bombing support from the air.

Afghan forces broke off the attack in early afternoon and withdrew, possibly to allow U.S. bombers to soften up Taliban and al-Qaida positions overnight. Heavy bombers could be heard flying toward the area late Saturday.

Pakistan closed its border to prevent escape by any al-Qaida or Taliban members fleeing the fight. Associated Press reporters saw U.S. military helicopters rushing Saturday toward the snowy mountains where the battle was waged.

Afghan fighters interviewed here said the Americans told them there were about 4,000 al-Qaida and Taliban warriors holed up in the mountains.

"We have surrounded the al-Qaida and Taliban," declared Saif Ullah, a member of the local governing council in Paktia province's Gardez, 20 miles north of the assault.

Remote, rugged and honeycombed with caves, the mountains around Gardez have been a hiding place for Afghan warriors since anti-Soviet guerrillas used them as a base for their fight against Soviet troops in the 1980s.

Former Taliban front-line commander Saif Rahman was believed to be leading the Taliban and Taliban-allied foreign forces still in hiding there.

Paktia was also a stronghold of Jalaluddin Haqqani, a U.S.-backed rebel commander in the 1980s who joined the Taliban and is sought by U.S. authorities.

Neither the former Taliban supreme leader Mullah Mohammed Omar nor al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden is believed to be in the area.

American warplanes and helicopters opened the attack Friday night, pounding suspected al-Qaida and Taliban hide-outs into Saturday morning.

AP reporters saw a dozen U.S. military helicopters taking off from a landing strip in Logar province south of Kabul on Saturday, kicking up clouds of brown dust as they sped away. They included at least one transport helicopter. Local residents said the helicopters had been shuttling weapons and ammunition toward the area of fighting since dawn.

"The Americans said 'first we are bombing, and then we will launch an attack,'" fighter Jan Mohammed said at the Gardez hospital.

"The helicopters were rocketing, and the planes were bombing. It was too much," a doctor, Naguibullah, said at the Gardez hospital.

Americans and their Afghan allies threw at least 380 Afghan fighters, moving with about 30 American Special Forces, into the offensive Saturday. Afghan forces wore black wool caps with white pieces of paper on the tops, so U.S. helicopter pilots could distinguish them from Taliban and al-Qaida.

"Our goal since the beginning ... has been to eliminate al-Qaida and Taliban elements in the country, so they cannot reconstitute," said Maj. A.C. Roper, spokesman for the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne division at southern Afghanistan's American-held Kandahar airport.

"We are moving methodically to identify those elements so we can achieve that goal," Roper said.

Afghan officials say al-Qaida and Taliban fighters are regrouping in the mountains and just over the border in Pakistan, urging the faithful to wage holy war against U.S. forces.

Wives and children of al-Qaida, along with widows and families of al-Qaida dead, also are believed to be in hiding there.

The al-Qaida fighters are receiving support from a variety of groups, including Kashmiri separatists, Islamic militants in Pakistan and some former officials of Pakistan's intelligence service, according to Afghan sources.

In Pakistan, a senior government official at the border town of Miran Shah said Saturday that troops have blocked all routes to prevent escape of any al-Qaida and Taliban fleeing the attack.

The official, Javed Marwat, said a 60-mile strip with Afghanistan has been closed.

A tribal elder in the area, Haji Rasool Khan, said by telephone that his Madakhel tribe would not give shelter to any al-Qaida on the run.

The bombardment would be the United States' largest-known attack since bombing in January against the al-Qaida cave complex at Zawar Kili in Paktia province.

America's last reported ground operation in Afghanistan came Jan. 23, and failed - mistakenly killing at least 16 Afghans who turned out to be neither Taliban nor al-Qaida, the Pentagon acknowledged this month.

Smaller, undisclosed raids have taken place since, one U.S. defense official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Those raids have concentrated on gathering information about pockets of resistance, and have at times netted documents, or individuals who were interrogated or then released, the official said.

AP-ES-03-02-02 1414EST

[ChadGore]

Finally ! we have a fight ! bring it on !

[Miss Marple]

Karzi said that catching OBL was not his problem. Since there are Afghan troops in this conflict, I doubt that they are there as free-lancers; hence Karzi knows about this.

Afghanistan is not like fighting in Europe during WWII. The release of the Taliban foot soldiers was beyond anyone's control. I don't think that the few special forces that we had on the ground could have stopped it.

On the other hand, perhaps it was allowed so as to flush out others in hiding, and get them all in one location.

I try not to get too agitated about things when I don't have all the facts. I am sorry about the US soldier who is dead, and I imagine we will take some more casualties before this is done.

However, Tommy Franks knows what he's doing. It helps to remember that we don't have the huge forces there that we had during the Gulf War in Saudi. Therefore we have to be smart. If I know this, I am darned sure that Franks and Rumsfeld know it too.

Be patient.

[Lion's Cub]

That sounds like a plan to me.

My concern is that I don't think we can trust our allies. If we really get serious, I think our guys will have to worry just as much about the "allies" at their sides and backs. I wouldn't trust any of the locals.

[Dallas]

It sure sounds like it....

These numbers we're seeing just don't add up..

[american spirit]

I like it when someone as ignorant as you answers one of my posts. First of all, as detailed in the NY TIMES the first WTC bombing in '93 was the result of an FBI sting gone bad. One of the main perpetrators was an FBI informant who was hired to infiltrate the group and arrests were to be made before the act was to be carried out. Through a "miscommunication" the FBI did not intercept the group in time and several lives were lost. The only thing that saved the informant was that he had taped numerous conversations with the FBI and he saved himself from being a scapegoat.

It's a known fact that binLaden was a US gov't. creation to help fight the Russians, he was fingered as the mastermind behind the ship bombing in Yemen as well as the embassies. It sure is strange how we have military satellites that can ID a dime on the ground but somehow can't help track the whereabouts Osama and his boys.

FYI, 9/11 would not have happened if our intelligence agencies had heeded warnings from the Israeli Mossad and other foreign security groups. How could half the cab drivers in NYC know not to be in the vicinity of the WTC yet the FBI/CIA supposedly knew nothing, heck the knowledge of what was coming was so prevalent in the NY Arab community that some morons were even caught with video cameras in place to film the event. Don't tell me this was some event beyond our control. I'm not sure where you get your info but if you think Dan, Ted or Peter are going to tell us the truth you're sadly mistaken.

[Catspaw]

I like it when someone as ignorant as you answers one of my posts.

Proof positive that the pot is calling the kettle black.

[Fifth Business]

How would you finish the following sentence? We don't need to be in Afghanistan fighting because we can prevent future terrorist attacks like September 11 by ....

[PatrioticAmerican]

Just remember, the Societs took over A'stan in a month, but it was the holding of it that caused them all their problems.

[Salvation]

Send in the warplanes!

[MARTIAL MONK]

Why the hell would the U.S. command send 600 Afghans, and 60 special forces up against (3000, 4000, 5000, or 6000) al Quida.

Yesterday I saw news reports that said they thought there may be 500 Al Quida in this area. The current or the previous estimates could be wrong.