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AB 2222
California Legislative Digest ^ | 27 February 2002 | Assembly Member Koretz and The Usual Suspects

Posted on 02/27/2002 11:57:33 AM PST by 45Auto

AB 2222, as introduced, Koretz. .50 caliber sniper weapons.

Under existing law it is a crime to manufacture, cause to be manufactured, import into the state, keep for sale, or offer or expose for sale, or to give, lend, or possess certain dangerous weapons, as specified.

This bill would add to the list of dangerous weapons subject to those prohibitions, small arms armor piercing ammunition, as defined.

By changing the scope of an existing crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program. Existing law generally regulates the manufacture, possession, transport, and sale of machineguns, as defined.

This bill would similarly regulate .50 caliber sniper weapons, as defined. This bill would also provide, subject to exceptions, that any person who manufactures, causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends a .50 caliber sniper weapon is guilty of felony punishable by 4, 6, or 8 year imprisonment in the state prison.

This bill would further provide that, subject to exceptions, possession of a .50 caliber sniper weapon in violation of law would be punishable by imprisonment in state prison or in a county jail, not exceeding one year.

By creating new crimes, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program. Existing law requires, except as specified, for the destruction, as a nuisance, of a machinegun possessed in violation of law.

This bill would similarly require, except as specified, for the destruction, as a nuisance, of a .50 caliber sniper weapon possessed in violation of law.

Existing law provides that persons may arrange to relinquish an assault weapon to a police or sheriff's department. This bill would similarly permit persons to arrange to relinquish a .50 caliber sniper weapon to a police or sheriff's department.

The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement. This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Miscellaneous
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: Tembraugh
Why does anyone need a rifle that generates such kinetic energy?

Your grandmother's Caddy generates more kinetic energy. Why does she NEED it? When it comes down to it, why does anyone NEED much of anything?

The .50 can't destroy modern tanks. About the best you could do would be to jam the turret (unlikely). You are repeating half-truths and un-truths. If you get your facts correct, people will be more likely to discuss the issue with you instead of just flaming you.

/john

42 posted on 02/27/2002 1:46:33 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: Tembraugh
No, I don't think I am.

You need to find out the real capability of the .50, instead of the hype that HCI et al. spew.

I own one, so I know that you are factually incorrect. The bullet drop at 1000 meters (with match ammo) is 224.26 inches, or 21.4 MOA or 83 clicks on the elevation adjustment with a 0 at 200 meters. Few scopes do many more elevation clicks. It takes the bullet 1.26 seconds to reach that distance. How far does a car move in 1.26 seconds if it is going 60 mph? Even if it is sitting still, a wind of 5 miles per hour can make the bullet drift completely off target at that distance. It's just not that easy.

/john

45 posted on 02/27/2002 2:06:52 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Tembraugh
excellent point. Why does anyone need a rifle that generates such kinetic energy? Anyway, the M82A1 does this. It enables a single shooter to destroy enemy jeeps, tanks, personnel carriers, bunkers, fuel stations, and even communication centers.

I used .50 cals in the Marine Corps. It possible to incapacitate not destroy all the things you mentioned, except for a tank. A .50 will bounce off the skin of a main battle tank. I don't know what BS you have been reading but you are completely ignorant about weapons.

48 posted on 02/27/2002 2:20:34 PM PST by Ajnin
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To: Tembraugh
Tthis ain't (sic)the place to have a discussion about the natural rights of man.

What the hell do you think the founding of this country was about if not the natural rights of man? It seems you're on a mission to prove your ignorance with every single sentence you type.

From the very first paragraph of The Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ...

Suffice it to say that rights are restricted. For example the 1st amendment right to free speech is limited. You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre. Why? Cause doing so endangers the common good.

There you go again, proving you haven't the slightest clue of the meaning of a right. The right itself is not "restricted" or "limited" in any way. It's when you violate someone else's right that you violate the rule of law. Your movie theater example is perfect.

You don't have a right to feel safe from my .50 cal. There is no such right as the right to feel all warm and fuzzy because you're paranoid of good people. I am in no way violating your rights simply by owning a gun. If I threaten you or shoot you with my .50, that's a different story. Then we're in the movie theater.

I can see I'm wasting my time as you have not a clue as to the concept of "rights". You think rights are whatever people at any given time pick and choose according to the mindset du-jour. Our founders would tell you they're unalienable, not subject to stupid shut-ins that come along and want to take that right away because they feel threatened or think it's a good idea.

BTW, name for me one single solitary instance where one of these .50 cals has been used by a citizen to hurt another human being, just one. Despite the fact that thousands upon thousands have been sold, not one has been used to violate another American citizens "rights".

49 posted on 02/27/2002 2:21:03 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: Tembraugh
Oh yeah, a militia as it is defined under Title 10 USC 311 is either organized as in the National guard or unorganized which encompasses every US citizen between the ages of 17 and 45.
50 posted on 02/27/2002 2:26:12 PM PST by Ajnin
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To: Tembraugh
Probably beccause I elect his superiors, pay his paycheck, and I know he has been vetting by a training process for starters. Not to mention the fact that his power is circumscribe by laws & regulations

HAHAHA...oh this a good one. You pay me whether you like it or not. As for the training.. as a Federal Agent I can tell you there a numerous cops and Agents that should be nowhere near a gun. You don't elect my superiors either. As a private citizen I see our rights starting to wane. As a Fed my power and authority over you is increasing. I can do anything I want to you under the auspices of the government and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

51 posted on 02/27/2002 2:37:44 PM PST by Ajnin
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To: Tembraugh
Oh come, now - don't be coy. You're evidently not in favor of the peasantry's ability to object to whatever tyranny their erstwhile masters might have in mind. You're quite prepared to empower the apparatus of hte State to act against individuals for what they might do - so much for the rule of law, eh?. Where does that stop, I wonder?

So how do you propose to wrest these dangerous items from the the rest of us great unwashed?

So let's hear it - what price in blood are you willing to pay? How much butchery are you willing to support? And just how immune do you suppose yourself from the consequences?

Think it through and get back to us...

52 posted on 02/27/2002 2:52:26 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: Ajnin
I can do anything I want to you under the auspices of the government and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Are you the guy that indicted the ham sandwitch? ;>)

/john

53 posted on 02/27/2002 3:09:18 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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To: AAABEST
You're attempting to use reason and logic to deal with someone who posesses neither. Sometimes, you just have to leave them to their fate...
54 posted on 02/27/2002 3:13:45 PM PST by Noumenon
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To: Ajnin
HAHAHA...oh this a good one. You pay me whether you like it or not. As for the training.. as a Federal Agent I can tell you there a numerous cops and Agents that should be nowhere near a gun. You don't elect my superiors either. As a private citizen I see our rights starting to wane. As a Fed my power and authority over you is increasing. I can do anything I want to you under the auspices of the government and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Woooooohooooooo! Sing it brother!

Gosh, is there any way you can convert some of your co-workers? If all the people in my government thought like you, I'd be a freaking monarchist instead of an activist. I'd leave everything to you guys and go back to farting around doing yard work or something.

55 posted on 02/27/2002 3:32:17 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
LOL...Well, I think that law enforcement is a microcosm of our society. There are liberals, conservatives, pro gun and anti gun people. I think we can use the rule of thirds when talking about gun advocacy in law enforcement. However, I think there is only a handful of us that are really outspoken. Believe me, I've been prosetlyzing reeeeeal hard. Thanks to my fellow Freepers my arguments are airtight.
56 posted on 02/27/2002 3:44:46 PM PST by Ajnin
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To: Ajnin
However, I think there is only a handful of us that are really outspoken. Believe me, I've been prosetlyzing reeeeeal hard. Thanks to my fellow Freepers my arguments are airtight.

God bless you friend. Just be careful not to get on the wrong idiots bad side, we need you where you are.

57 posted on 02/27/2002 3:54:24 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST;ajnin
Amen AAABEST! We need people in government that understand the Constitution that they have sworn to defend. ajnin, thank you for your service, and your study of the Constitution.

/john

58 posted on 02/27/2002 5:31:01 PM PST by JRandomFreeper
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Comment #59 Removed by Moderator

To: Tembraugh
Interesting. All the court documents I read about Waco mentioned nothing about any Agent being shot by a .50 cal weapon. Perhaps you can give a source.

It doesn't matter if you get shot by a .50 cal or smacked on the head with a hammer, you'll still end up just as dead.

What do you think target shooting is huh? What is that called? Oh yeah its called a legitimate use for a .50 cal.

By the way it your faithful government that allowed the Al Queda to purchase the weapons in question.

60 posted on 02/27/2002 6:14:58 PM PST by Ajnin
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