Update on DELL vs Weigand Combat Handguns

Weigand Combat Handguns ^ | 2/26/02

[SAMWolf]

The above is the only thing I have written. I have written comments on email I have received (that number is now in the hundreds). I would like to add the following.

I have spoken to Dell today 2/26/02

They informed me that the reason my order was cancelled was due to the new post 9/11 screening policy. The word "Combat" in my company name is what triggered the cancellation of my order. The cancellation was triggered automatically. When I asked why I was not called to clear this up I was told there was a breakdown in communications on Dells part.

Just for the record so everyone knows where I stand.

I have no intention of further dealings with Dell, they don't deserve my business.

I want nothing from Dell but I would gladly accept and apology to the Firearms community in general.

I posted this expressly to warn firearms owners of Dell policies PERIOD.

There are those that think I did this to generate traffic to my web site. All this traffic just made it hard for my customers to shop this evening. If you will notice there are no advertisements on my web so traffic is not a factor. It has also generated hundreds of email that I personally answered. Just so you all know I am not smart enough to do a publicity stunt of this magnitude on purpose, LOL!

I would humbly request the following.

Please, please refrain from making personal attacks on Michael Dell. I have received hundreds of e mails attacking Mr. Dell, please do not do this. This is a business issue not a personal issue, please keep it that way. I know we are all passionate about our right to keep and bear arms but please be as professional as possible

I thank all of those that took the time to confirm that this story was true before spreading it, you all are to be commended!

I thank the Firearms community as a family for being so willing to come to my aid.

God Bless
Jack Weigand
President
Weigand Combat Handguns Inc.

[pt17]

My compliments for stating the position so well. I'd like to now come to the defense of some of these "hair-trigger hotheads" and suggest their paranoia isn't without merit. The nature of the anti-gun crowd has been so insidious that it triggers an automatic, knee-jerk reaction and I think that's what happened in this case. The bad news is that such reactions greatly aid those who would take our guns away.

[Woodman]

I highly recomend them.

[pt17]

I currently handle 67 pc's, all of which were built from the power supply and motherboard on up and the downtime is virtualy non-existant.

Captain, I handle a lot more than that and, I'd like to say, neither one of us have a sufficient sample size to make any generalizations.

[Have Ruck - Will Travel]

This looks to be a customer service/support failure and not a policy problem. Screening customers in the PC business is a very prudent move IMHO. ESPECIALLY foreign customers, but it should not be limited to them only. In too many cases, technology is bought in the US and then reshipped overseas to less than desirable customers.

Although I have no way of knowing the details of what went on inside Dell, it looks like a relatively new system where someone dropped the ball. Now, was it a liberal salesman who has something against gun owners and businesses? If so, that person needs to be relieved of his/her duties immediately; if for no other reason, they created a lot of bad publicity for their company. Was it a procedural/training issue? If so, the Sales and Customer Service (usually under the Quality Department) Sections need review to correct the problem.

The bottom line is that customers (especially private individuals) should not have to climb any "snot-rope" looking for someone to whom they can take their problems. We, as customers (both individual and corporate), should not have to put up with such lack of service and should make it clear, through the use of our buying power, that such is not acceptable.

Mr. Dell's message sets the policy for the company. If what he writes in this message is true, then I see no problem in doing business with them. However, we should keep a sharp eye out for more instances of this type of problem. If they persist, then I know that I, personally, will have nothing else to do with their company either as a private purchaser or when making recommendations.

Take care,

Ruck

[Rowdee]

Question: in all your dealings with Dell, have you had to fill out a waiver like the one they apparently 'overlooked' sending to Mr. Wiegand?

Do they also send this waiver to anyone who has a name that sounds like Ahab, the Arab, or Mohammed Mohammed bin Mohammed? After all, it was 19 fureiners of Middle East origin that did the dastardly deed....sure wasn't a good ol US citizen named Jones, or Smith, or Smartenjammer?

No matter how great Dell products can be, when we start letting them set the standards for who is accceptable, based on what they believe in, we're in deep dooo....if it comes down to it, who do you trust....your computer or your Smith-Wesson?

[lelio]

While a prudent gun-seller would appropriately scrutinize a prospective purchase by an Afghani, a prudent seller of computers should not systemically refuse to sell to an American company that is servicing those who exercise the right to keep and bear arms. The whole point of the fuss is that Dell is discriminating on the basis of something that should not be viewed with alarm--namely, engaging in a business that involves the right to bear arms.
Dell isn't systemically refusing to sell to pro-gun people. The word "combat" set off a flag in their database and they cancelled the order meaning to get back to him about it. I highly doubt they went to his website and said "as a liberal company we're against guns."
They need to improve on the followup, but when you're selling hundreds of computers to a single customer (well maybe not lately) you're bound to miss the person that orders a single computer. Everyone makes errors and this was an honest one.

[PatrioticAmerican]

I order millions a year ($2m-$4m) in computers, mostly from Dell. I called my rep and he sid that there is NO standing policy against firearms associated companies. I gave him your info and he is getting on this right now. He does not want my business going to IBM. My rep thinks that the rep for your order is anti-gun, and if that person has placed FDell in an anti-gun political situation, he/she will be canned.

[avenir]

Never have believed in the "one size fits all" system because it always involves compromise at some point.

I agree with you. In the realm of computers, though, I have no savvy for putting them together. For some reason I always wanted to get a Dell. I did, and my experience has been good. Not perfect.

A bit off the path here, your comment reminded me of the Bridgestone bicycle company. Although making mass-produced bikes, their director Grant Peterson was a big believer in cherry-picking various components so that each bike, at each level, had the best mix of parts for that price range. I bought an MB3 mountain bike several years ago for $800 and that thing is as good as new and still gives me satisfaction.

Not on topic, but just to let you know I also like the idea of finding the best possible components instead of using "stock".

[DB]

Thank you. I'm a gun owner in California...

We gun owners have many misguided enemies trying to take our God given rights. Michael Dell is not one of those.

[lelio]

Hey FR almost got a mention in this Washington Post's Newsbytes.com article.

[dpwiener]

That "lack of principles" works both ways. What about the principle of allowing one to correct one's error? If Dell chooses not to, then shame on them, if they recognize the error and offer to correct it then shame on you.

I agree. The huge reaction against Dell which was caused by Jack Weigand's initial post was fully warranted. That reaction was sure to force a response from Dell, and if it had turned out that Dell actually followed a policy of discriminating against gun dealers, the consequences for Dell would not have been pretty.

What we got back was a message from the President explaining that his company had made a mistake which he apologized for. He furthermore assured us that it is not Dell's policy to discriminate against any legal business. Isn't that what we wanted?

We won. But some people can't take "YES" for an answer.

If we persist in attacking and punishing companies even after they've responded positively and apologized, what do we accomplish except to alienate them? Why should a company bother to mend its ways in the future, if it knows that won't accomplish anything?

If we expect to be effective in safeguarding our right to keep and bear arms, we have to be fair and honorable in our approach. Continuing to attack a company over a single error, which that company has attempted to rectify, is being neither fair nor honorable.

[yarddog]

I pretty much agree with your points. I definitely will not boycott Dell based on what happened.

I do think the apology was a little weak but he basically did do what was necessary, in other words he said they were wrong and did not have a policy of against selling to gun related businesses.

I would have preferred a much stronger apology but he has to walk a tightrope of sorts on these politically charged issues.

[SAMWolf]

Thanks for the contacting someone at Dell about this. This did not happen to me, I was just reporting the incident. The President of Dell has issued a response and it looks like someone screwed up.

[capt. norm]

The only generalization is that when you build a machine from the ground up with the best sound card, best video card, best storage devices, etc. , and Dell does not have the best anything among its components, you can have high expectations.

Dell survives by cutting corners, buying large quantities of discounted parts and components. In no case do they use the top components any category so you are mainly buying a collection of 2nd class and third class components and expecting a first class computere.

If ones needs are simple and few and your not going to push the machine much, one could get by with a Dell. We've had a half dozen of them here and they weren't bad...they just weren't any good. We moved them to non-critical applications (receptionist, and similar MS Office apps) until they could be replaced.

The wheels have come off their service policy: Info World Ed Foster column

and that's the one thing I had heard that was good about them.

[Dan Day]

While I'm pro-gun what if the company name was "Combat Sticks to Blow up Christians" -- you'll have a fit they were selling to them.

Then that would be vastly different, wouldn't it?

Congratulations, you get my "lamest analogy of the week" award.

Dell wrote a filter to look for names that could indicate violence and unfortunately Combat Pistols shows up. Their corporate communication sucks. How's that different from any other company?

It's not about "communication". It's about a company that:

1. Is too stupid to see that the phrase "combat handguns" is different from "hi, we're a bunch of terrorists".

2. Cancels orders simply on the basis of a brain-dead keyword match.

3. Prefers to cancel orders automatically and then maybe, possibly, if they feel like it, reinstate the order if they happen to get around to talking to the customer about it.

4. Has a "guilty until proven innocent" position with regards to their customers.

5. Isn't competent enough to set things instantly right when contacted by the customer whose order they wrongly canceled.

6. Can't seem to grasp that they should at least put an order on *hold* while they double-check the legitimacy of the order, and not just outright *cancel* it.

7. Etc., etc., etc.

[dpwiener]

I do think the apology was a little weak but he basically did do what was necessary

It was weak, but it was adequate. From Michael Dell's point of view this whole thing is being blown way out of proportion: They had a breakdown in communications with a customer, and suddenly they find themselves landed on by pro-gun people all over the country.

Well, it's a good object lesson for Dell and for other companies: Don't mess around when it comes to 2nd Amendment issues. This one incident is going to continue to echo around the Internet, and Dell sales reps will be fielding angry questions for weeks and months to come. It will probably end up costing Dell millions of dollars in lost sales. They'll be walking on eggshells in the future for fear of offending more customers.

So I think Dell has been adequately punished for its error. Let's (justifiably) declare victory and move on.

[AdA$tra]

when you order on the web you still are dealing with a human sales rep.

[AdA$tra]

i handle 100 + pc's as well. we used to build 'em. now we buy dells. it may be a small sampling....but i will take the dells and their support any day over fixing some x-employee's hand rolled pc's.

[AdA$tra]

it's the feds and lawyers that drive ALL of this. Dell is just trying to do BUSINESS.

[AdA$tra]

A gun owner in California......an endangered species if I have ever seen one!