Our Galaxy Should Be Teeming With Civilizations, But Where Are They?

www.space.com ^ | 10/25/01 | Seth Shostak

[ASA Vet]

Comments please.

[Darksheare]

They were all tortured with Vogon poetry and spaced... either that or the Sanitraginus 5 mineral water got them.. .Or was it the Fornubdian Fire Fungus? Or maybe the Galactic Security Agency popped in on Sub-etha belts and....

[JoeSixPack1]

Planet is flat. No, round, no flat, no round, fall off if flat.........OK, Round.
We're alone. No we're not, yes we are, no we're not, yes we are, Die if we're alone...........OK not alone.

When we get done searching, let me know. Its a big universe, so far, we're seeing nothing but shadows. A couple of million / billion year old shadows is not a lot to base a hypothosis on.

[DWSUWF]

Such sweeping conclusions, based on such meager information.

Earth may be a galactic backwater, a sort of interstellar Casa Blanca, trod only by those aliens unfortunate enough to draw a tour of duty here as a punishment.

And our inability to 'see' and 'hear' evidences of their civilization(s) with our crude communication and observation devices may simply be the result of a routine embargo facilitated by blocking technologies which long experience has taught 'them' to routinely deploy to quarantine backward but evolving civilizations such as ours, which operate on principles that we don't yet have the words or concepts required to explain.

The gulf between us and their technology may, in fact, be an order of magnitude wider than that between a Neanderthal clan and the space shuttle... It might not be physically possible for our brains to understand the insrtumentalities of a race that's been sailing space for half a million years.

Are there aliens?

We don't, and -at this point- probably can't answer that question.

[weikel]

We would like to present with a gift miss Struthers this boy frozen in carbonite.

[openotherend]

If we find other lifeforms we can tell them we used to live there but we moved and it's our property so they owe us rent.

[weikel]

Pinging a heavy hitter.

[onedoug]

If the age of the universe is finite, civilizations have only had that long to evolve toward creation science.
Hence, there will be no contact between these systems.

[quesera]

On the other hand, if other civilizations were able to break the light barrier, then they would have been able to time travel also, meaning they would have been here already.

This also means that we never broke the light barrier or achieved time travel here on Earth with our own civilization. Not even millions or billions of years from now. Because if our civilization was able to time travel far off in the future, they would have already been here.

I certainly hope that if we ever discover time travel, we would be wise enough not to contaminate the timeline of the the past or future. Once time travel is discovered, I'm sure there will be laws in place to prevent timeline contamination.

If we accept that, then it's safe to assume that we would and should never know of any such visits.

[LibWhacker]

I also think Fermi's argument is a knockout punch as arguments go. In addition, data from various SETI projects are pouring in, lending further support. The Universe may only have one intelligent and technologically advanced species today, but if Muslims, communists and the like don't drag mankind back into the Middle Ages and squander our future, the Milky Way WILL be teeming with advanced technological civilizations in another few million years or so, all of it descended from, or engineered by, us. It's a safe bet it'll be a pretty contentious place, too -- IMHO.

[boris]

"Well look at it this way. In order to colonize the galaxy, the light barrier would have to be broken. Otherwise it would take thousands of (earth) years to move about the galaxy. Assuming that other civilizations would have a lifespan comparable to humans on Earth, trips of such length would be impractical."

But robot probes could travel at 5% (or less) of light speed. A "Von Neumann robot" is one that makes a copy of itself using local resources and dumps its database into the copy. Both then set off at random for new stars. Eventually, by random walk, one staggers home and dumps the entire data base collected by its ancestors. Thus a small initial investment yields a huge pay-off.

If we can think of such a scheme, intelligent ETs should do so as well. There has been ample time for every single star to be visited more than once. If intelligent ETs are common, there ought to be a traffic jam of probes swarming around the solar system right now.

We do not observe this; hence it is unlikely that there are many intelligent ETs--at least in this galaxy.

--Boris

[pierrem15]

"The gulf between us and their technology may, in fact, be an order of magnitude wider than that between a Neanderthal clan and the space shuttle... "

But then can't we have an affirmative action program for all humans?

[Congressman Billybob]

I heard the Fermi Paradox stated as this question: "Why aren't they here?" The analysis above correctly states the Paradox. However, there is a non-paradoxical answer.

The first rule of the Federation (in Star Trek is "non-interference." Advanced civilizations are not supposed to get involved in, and change the course of, lesser civilizations. The idea is taken directly from Dr. Margaret Mead, the great sociologist, who said that our approach to the head-hunters in Borneo, for instance, should be to observe without interfering.

So I posit the answer as this: There are tens of thousands of civilizations out there which are millions of years ahead of us in development. But, we are to them as the head-hunters of Borneo were to us. Their proper course of action is to leave us alone until we grow up. Maybe in another 10,000 years (provided we don't nuke ourselves back to the Stoe Age). we'll have playmates in our interstellar backyard.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column up -- "America's Two-Women Bobsled Gold Proves Cornel West is a Moron."

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Or maybe those other beings abandoned us here and don't want to come back in fear they'll have to pay reparations. They probably pick up our news broadcasts and see Al Sharpton and Hillary. They decide they would go broke feeding them.

[Rocko]

Somebody has to be first.

[PJ-Comix]

Belief in the existence of extraterrestrials has reached cult-like proportions despite overwhelming evidence that we are ALONE in the universe. Get over it folks. There won't be any ETs coming to earth to "save" us.

[The Duke]

Well look at it this way. In order to colonize the galaxy, the light barrier would have to be broken. Otherwise it would take thousands of (earth) years to move about the galaxy.

Alien: "Oh, we broke the lightspeed barrier allright, but every time we really get goin' we run into sh&t!"

[SonnyBubba]

Absolutly, everything is relative.

[mrsmith]

Last year's thread: Fermi's Paradox II: What's Blocking Galactic Civilization? Or Are We Just Blind To It?

I go for the theory that it's hard to travel, and once you have the ability to create homes off planet there is no compulsion to do so.

[RadioAstronomer]

As to the Fermi Paradox:

We both are quite aware just how far it is "out there". With the speed of light being the fundamental limit for baryonic matter, it will be next to impossible to travel between the stars (at least under our current level of physics knowledge). So the universe may be populated with little isolated bits of intelligence all wondering if any other species are out there.

Just in the past few years we have advanced far enough in our technical prowess to both "announce" to the universe we are here (radio waves) and to receive the same from another species. With that in mind and the speed of light being a constant in a vacuum, the expanding sphere of radio noise heralding our presence has only gone about 60 light years or so. So there may be an entire galactic community out there but our "knock" hasn't yet hit the door so to speak.

Also there may be thousands of intergalactic signals bouncing around but we have not yet found the right frequency or built sensitive enough equipment to receive them. We really are kind of in the back woods of this galaxy 2/3rds the way down one of the spiral arms. So have we been visited? I don’t think so, How would a race even know we were here to come and visit us with out us heralding ourselves first. So far, radio is the only way we have done that, and its not gotten very far out there yet.