Posted on 02/24/2002 3:48:41 AM PST by TomSmedley
The press release in your link is actually a correction. The Center based a recent study on a flawed household sample that resulted in the estimate for underaged drinkers being doubled from 11% to 25%. The latter was the figure hyped by the media nationwide. Of course, the correction received almost no coverage.
"He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, and vegetation for the labor of man, so that he may bring forth food from the earth, and wine which makes man's heart glad." — Psalm 104:14-15
A lie! Psst! Your bias is showing.
The disagreement isn't over Dobson's intentions. Most assume they are good. But good intentions aren't enough. They have to be matched by sound teaching and right action. Unfortunately, much of what Dobson teaches and many of the actions he advocates are misplaced.
Not the Reformed Protestants. We believe the Bible when it says God brings a bountiful harvest not only that there may be food to eat but also "wine which makes man's heart glad" (Psalm 104:15). Grape juice doesn't possess this virtue.
No, he turned it into beer.
He turned water into wine at a wedding feast when the prepared wine ran out. It's sad that pietist fundamentalists think they can be more holy than Jesus by banning wine.
That was the case at my old church, which wouldn't allow me to have wine at my own wedding! So I took my bride elsewhere, and my wife and I now attend another church.
In the second chapter of Dobson’s book, Straight Talk to Men and Their Wives, Dobson discusses the source of much of his ministry. It does not come from the Scriptures, but from the Lord's direct revelation to Dobson. The Lord first spoke to Dobson's father informing him of a joint project between he and his son. … years later, as Dobson was rushing to his dying father's hospital bed, the Lord spoke to him.
Although the voice was not audible, somehow the Lord said, "You are going to write a book for husbands and fathers, based on the life of your dad. The inspiration will be derived from his values, his dedications, his walk with Me. This is the joint venture of which I spoke two years ago" Later Dobson asked the Lord for more specifics. He said to the Lord, "Why should I depend on my own puny insight and wisdom, when I can tap the resources of the Creator of families. Give me the concepts that you want me to communicate."
It is obvious at that point that Dr. Dobson did not believe that the Scriptures were sufficient to communicate God's will concerning families. Something more was needed, and that something was a direct word from the Lord to Dobson. … Here were God's instructions: "If America is going to survive the incredible stresses and dangers it now faces, it will be because husbands and fathers again place their families at the highest level of their system of priorities, reserving a portion of their time and energy for leadership within their home!" The emphasis of Dobson's ministry since that time has been based upon this extrabiblical revelation, not upon the Word of God.
Did Dobson hear from God or not? If he did, then that revelation should carry divine authority. If he did not, then he has added to the Scriptures, something John warns us not to do (Rev. 22:18,19).
Children are merely minature adults in training, there are some that are bright, and some that are not so bright. There are those that because of their internal psyche have more of propensity to get into mischief. They are as individual as their parents, and need to be recognized as such and dealt with accordinglly. Some mature faster than others, and may require that they be informed about the ways of the world and life at a younger age, some may not be ready until later. It is a parent's responsibility to take the time to know their child and gain an understanding of them as individuals. If a child appears to be a high acheiver, a parent needs to recognize this and help steer the child towards things that will stimulate them and hold their interest. If a child is an under acheiver, then the parent should recognize this as well, and try to help focus the child on life path that is suitable for them. I have a friend who has a 10 year old boy, who I would classify as "not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed." His parents have dreams of Harvard for him, and frankly it won't ever happen. However, they are pushing this kid beyond his abilities and it is sure to back fire on them some day. What I see there is that the parents out of their own selfishnes for status, have set unreasonable goals for their son. He is doomed to fail from the start.
I wasn't aware of this myself. It however does appear to be characteristic of the kind of thing that bugs me about Dobson. It's horribly ambiguous at best and his authoritarian style in propounding it doesn't exactly inspire a greater degree of confidence. Does he mean that the Lord would use his father's life to clarify the message of the Bible (which could be perfectly OK) or that the Lord would somehow give him a message of moral truth to preach independent of the Bible (which is a fatuous idea for Christians)?
So increased sales (or brand share of market) automatically means "irresponsible" use. Wow, that logic can't be opposed even by God himself
dude you need to pay more attention to what people are actually posting. It would have been nice if you had responded to something I had said or implied.
I was responding to the implication that these companies only want people to drink responsibly. And that there would be no negative side effects by such advertising. My point is that they are doing it to increase sales by attracting new customers. Thank you for agreeing with me on that.
Oh by the way, If a certain percentage of drinkers are problem drinkers, and we increase the total number of drinkers, wouldn't the number of problem drinkers also increase?
Sorry but I think that you misunderstood me. I was responding to an attack on Dobson. The writer said in opposing Dobson that Christians are know as goody-goody types opposed to everything. The writer asked if outsiders had every seen us live what we stand for. My point is that Dobson has live what he stands for. (His actions here are part of that stand.) If you are going to attack someone for not doing anything positive. You better make sure that they havn't done anything positive. My point was/is that Dobson has done a lot of good. And most likely a lot more good than the writer.
p.s. thanks for the info on the study. The problem with posting at FR is that you don't have a lot of time to checkout everything before you post it. And for the record I don't agree 100% with everything Dobson believes, who does?
NOT necessarily so.
I did.
I was responding to the implication that these companies only want people to drink responsibly
It's like the implication that "eeeeeeeeeevil" gun makers want drive-by shootings by criminals. Or for that matter that axe manufacturers want axe murders. All these misuses happen but that isn't the goal.
How wonderful, if that involves only token service to the gospel. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Eternally. Long after the society that Dobson wants nicened has passed permanently away, part into heaven and the rest into hell.
What in the world are you talking about?
I'm said that they want to attract new customers and increase sales. That is the goal of advertising. That's why businesses advertise. They want to attract new customers. And I said that in response to a post which implied that these were ads were PSAs.
How wonderful, if that involves only token service to the gospel. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Eternally. Long after the society that Dobson wants nicened has passed permanently away, part into heaven and the rest into hell.
Huh? Perhaps you would like to include an example or two with your accusations.
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