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Why I Believe Predestination
myself
| 2/18/01
| myself
Posted on 02/18/2002 8:54:15 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: StDonTheBaptist
It is very easy to explain that away. If you look at Scripture, you see that "the world" refers to the general nature of humanity....it does not mean Jesus died just "perhaps" to save everyone. Indeed, Jesus died to save specific people.....and if one thinks about that, it is amazing that he was thinking of me.
To: rwfromkansas
Free will is seeing truth, choosing truth is being free.
To: rwfromkansas
Would it be accurate to say that you do not believe that Jesus is the Savior of all men?
To: FormerLib
Correct. After all, if he is the savior of all men, he died in vain since most reject him. I believe he is the savior of his people, a group God chose from before the world, to save.
To: rwfromkansas
I have a big list like that too. John 6:44 is even tattooed to my arm.
To: Semi Civil Servant
Free will" APPEARS to violate the concept of God's sovereignty. That bothers Presbyterians (et al). "Predestination" APPEARS to violate the concept of God's justice. That REALLY bothers most everybody else, as the replys are telling you. In fact, God is both Sovereign and Just and there is no contradiction. The bottom line is this: There will be some Presbyterians in heaven, and some free willers in hell! (and visa versa)
26
posted on
02/19/2002 10:12:11 AM PST
by
Gamecock
To: Gamecock
Free will to accept or reject Truth...does that make sense?
To: rwfromkansas
Interesting new faith you've developed. Quite a stretch from Christianity though.
To: rwfromkansas
What a cruel God you worship. I'm glad mine isn't so evil.
To: rwfromkansas
After all, if he is the savior of all men, he died in vain since most reject him.By the way, if your theory were true, then those who reject Him may very well be correct in doing so since He would reject them regardless of what was in their hearts.
A simple reading of the tale of the Canaanite women shows just how wrong all of this is. Take the Bible as a complete work, not just filler in between the passages you underline, and you'll discover there is salvation for all who would follow Him.
Guess we'll have to wait until the Final Judgement to see if anyone shows up who isn't on your list.
To: ccmay
"We have no choice but to believe in free will." Well, I would like to believe in free will, but I have a problem...I am a strong fan of causality.
When someone asserts that he has free will, I translate it into English as: "My outputs are not functions of my inputs."
Very well then...What are your outputs a function of?
Randomness does not resurrect free will; a random robot is still a robot. For similar reasons, Heisenberg does not save it either.
I'd really, really like to believe I have free will. I am forced to act as if I do. Only...if you believe in causality, what room is left for free will--excluding randomness and uncertainty?
--Boris
31
posted on
02/19/2002 12:59:48 PM PST
by
boris
To: f.Christian
Free will to accept or reject Truth...does that make sense? How else would you explain Democrats? Or the OJ Simpson jury? Or folks who still pay attention to Bill Clinton?
The world is full of examples of people rejecting the plain truth. What makes you think their acceptance of the Truth would be any different?
Do people have the free will to do evil? How is that not rejecting the Truth?
To: rwfromkansas
I have two serious questions.
If you are predestined to go to heaven, what requires you to be good, or moral?
If I am predestined to go to hell, then what requires me to be good, or moral?
To: gcruse
Quiet - I don't wanna know...
To: boris
When someone asserts that he has free will, I translate it into English as: "My outputs are not functions of my inputs." Well there's your error right up front! Free will affects how such a person would react to their 'inputs.' Try encountering a dozen people at random one at a time. Give them the 'input' of saying 'Hello?' to each. Are their 'outputs' the same? Did their free will have any effect on said 'output?'
Gee, that was easy.
To: FormerLib
True will(Christian) vs. dumb--no will(liberal/libertarainism) is what I was thinking about...
in realatarian doctrine there is no free anything except dumb-trouble-stupid!
To: Jeremy_Bentham
Those same questions always occur to me. Plus, why would Jesus have spent so much time teaching if He already knew what everyone was going to get on the exam, if you will, and there wasn't any way for any of them to change that.
Attempting to teach indicates the belief that someone can learn and thereby modify some aspect of their behavior. To what end becomes the obvious question.
To: f.Christian
in realatarian doctrine...Hmmm, never heard that one before. Some folks come up with more new '-ian's that the liberals can come up with 'ism's!
To: boris
Irrelevant. As long as we believe we have freewill, it's as good as having it.
Do you think Captain Pike really cares that he's not fit and young on Talos IV?
To: rwfromkansas
The Bible teaches both the predestination and the free will of man. It's hard to comprehend with our limited minds (kind of like the Trinity), but it's there. I wish I had time before I left work to demonstrate this with supporting verses, but I will try to do so later this evening.
40
posted on
02/19/2002 1:14:16 PM PST
by
AsYouAre
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