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Santa Barbara Libertarians help win Boy Scout discrimination fight
LP News ^ | February | LP

Posted on 02/15/2002 6:50:19 AM PST by DoSomethingAboutIt

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Man, those libertarians are a bunch of heathens who only care about smoking dope.
1 posted on 02/15/2002 6:50:20 AM PST by DoSomethingAboutIt
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To: Dane; Cultural Jihad; Kevin Curry
Ahem...
2 posted on 02/15/2002 6:54:57 AM PST by freeeee
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To: freeeee
The old adage about the blind squirrel comes to mind.

As I've said before, I'll say again: libertarianism would work fine in a society comprising highly moral, self-disciplined, God-fearing people.

On balance our society no longer meets that criteria, and on the whole the Libertarian Party is ruled by men and women who spurn and ridicule such indispensible notions as Judeo-Christian based morality.

The Libertarian Party has a fine automobile, but no engine; a comely body, but no soul. All it is fit for is self-indulgent rust and decay.

3 posted on 02/15/2002 7:09:12 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
Therefore you want government to control me and otheres like me instead of deal appropriately with those who harm others.

Treat people like children and they'll act like children. Treat them like subjects and they'll act like subject.

Or they'll revolt.

4 posted on 02/15/2002 7:15:28 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: Kevin Curry
The Libertarian Party has a fine automobile, but no engine; a comely body, but no soul.

The Libertarians didn't do this out of the goodness of their hearts as evidenced by this statement from the article:

"Even bigots have rights," said [Santa Barbara LP Secretary Robert Bakhaus].

5 posted on 02/15/2002 7:16:48 AM PST by Moonman62
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To: freeeee
I whole-heartedly agree with the ideologues when they chime in about free association. If a landlord doesn't want to rent to these people, he should have that right. If an employer doesn't want to hire them, he should have that right, too. But when the ideologues chime in on how people have no right to determine what kind of a society they are to live in and what the laws should say, or that religious have no 1st Amendment right to exercise their religion which includes the formation of the larger family, then we part company.
6 posted on 02/15/2002 7:20:05 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Kevin Curry
I am sure that the Libertarians appreciate your praise for their action. BTW, have you done anything which does more than this action to further the cause of freedom of association?
7 posted on 02/15/2002 7:23:05 AM PST by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Moonman62
"Even bigots have rights," said [Santa Barbara LP Secretary Robert Bakhaus].

Yuck. What an anti-religion bigoted thing to say, that those who think men smearing each other with excrement is wrong are somehow 'bigots.' Are we 'bigots' if we think rape is wrong? Or stealing? Or suicide? Or excessive taxation? Or government corruption?

8 posted on 02/15/2002 7:23:21 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Kevin Curry
Yes, I'm familiar with your ideas about the feasability of libertarianism.

I just wanted to point out that we aren't about promoting homosexuality, or sinful behavior in general, as we are constantly accused. I doubt gays in California right now would suggest we do.

The reason this occured isn't because a blind squirrel found a nut. It's due to principled defense of liberty for everyone.

9 posted on 02/15/2002 7:24:43 AM PST by freeeee
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To: freeeee
I just wanted to point out that we aren't about promoting homosexuality, or sinful behavior in general, as we are constantly accused. I doubt gays in California right now would suggest we do.

Baloney. Tolerating evil makes one just as guilty as the doer of evil. The ideologues like to chime in that evil is so awful and terrible that the only worse thing is the societal discouragement of evil.

10 posted on 02/15/2002 7:29:37 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Yes, clearly there are irreconcilable differences between us that we'll never agree upon.

But there are issues, deeply threatened issues, that we can agree on, like free association and 2nd Amendment rights.

Even we can agree upon some issues. When it comes to these agreeable issues, we should bury the hatchet. These California libertarians and republicans set a good example.

11 posted on 02/15/2002 7:29:58 AM PST by freeeee
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To: Kevin Curry
Tyranny would work fine in a government comprising highly moral, self-disciplined, God fearing people.

Our government no longer meets that criteria, and on whole the Republican/Democratic parties are ruled by those who spurn & ridicule freedom.

Their success is continued by willing slaves.

Do you prefer to be called Toby, or Kunte-Kinte?

12 posted on 02/15/2002 7:32:54 AM PST by laotzu
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To: Cultural Jihad
If a landlord doesn't want to rent to these people, he should have that right. If an employer doesn't want to hire them, he should have that right, too. But when the ideologues chime in on how people have no right to determine what kind of a society they are to live in and what the laws should say, or that religious have no 1st Amendment right to exercise their religion which includes the formation of the larger family, then we part company.

Your statement seems contradictory, although perhaps I am not understanding it. Do "people" have the "right" to determine that landlords and employers in fact don't have the right to rent to and hire whom they choose? If so, do they then have the right to decide, if they are so inclined, that the Boy Scouts can't refuse to associate with gays?

Or does the right to hire and employ and choose Scoutmasters as you choose trump the "people's...right to determine what kind of a society they are to live in"?

It seems to me that the two "rights" cannot both simultaneously exist.

13 posted on 02/15/2002 7:34:54 AM PST by untenured
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To: Austin Willard Wright
The question really is if he has ever done anything positive OUT OF SHEER PRINCIPLE for someone with whom he does not agree.
14 posted on 02/15/2002 7:37:52 AM PST by Eagle Eye
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To: Cultural Jihad
Tolerating evil makes one just as guilty as the doer of evil.

The point of the article is that libertarians defend intolerance, at the private level.

Be as intolerant as you like. I don't mind. Kick people out of the Scouts, don't rent to them, don't hire them, don't sell to them. We defend your absolute right to do so.

You don't need government to practice intolerance. When personal intolerance is practiced through government force against people who haven't initiated force or fraud, the result isn't merely intolerance. It's oppression.

15 posted on 02/15/2002 7:38:24 AM PST by freeeee
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To: untenured
does the right to hire and employ and choose Scoutmasters as you choose trump the "people's...right to determine what kind of a society they are to live in"? It seems to me that the two "rights" cannot both simultaneously exist.

Excellent point!!! Thanks for bringing that up.

16 posted on 02/15/2002 7:41:11 AM PST by freeeee
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To: Cultural Jihad
But when the ideologues chime in on how people have no right to determine what kind of a society they are to live in and what the laws should say,

So, for the record, in this case, you side firmly with the people of Santa Barbara and their duly elected officials to " determine what kind of a society they are to live in and what the laws should say".

Gotcha! Just want to let everyone know what side you are on, CJ.

17 posted on 02/15/2002 7:47:17 AM PST by southern rock
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To: freeeee
The point of the article is that libertarians defend intolerance, at the private level

And Act Up should be forced to have homophobes as their den leaders.

18 posted on 02/15/2002 7:52:54 AM PST by corkoman
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To: corkoman
I don't quite understand you.
19 posted on 02/15/2002 7:56:26 AM PST by freeeee
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To: Cultural Jihad
Tolerating evil makes one just as guilty as the doer of evil

Given the subject of the post, I assume you are referring to homosexuality. Since you say we cannot tolerate evil, what do you propose be done? Jail all homosexuals? Shoot them?

Are you saying that a person's morality is meaningless unless he backs it up with government force?

20 posted on 02/15/2002 8:00:37 AM PST by alpowolf
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