Bush Aide Karl Rove Gets Briefings on ‘Gay’ GOP Effort

Culture and Family Institute ^ | February 7, 2002 | Peter LaBarbera

[Double Eagle Sword of Justice]

I'm an AF Academy grad, former SAC aircraft commander in the Cold War days, evangelical Christian, dad of seven.........married to the same woman for just a hair under 24 years. I'm as Conservative as they come.

You disagree with Gen. Colin Powell who insists that allowing open homosexuals in the military would irreparably harm it?

[Double Eagle Sword of Justice]

Just noticed that you tried to bait me on yet another reply. Don't even think about it, rookie. You're out of your league.

I have no idea what you are referring to. Why do people always assume these cynical and mean-spirited motives? I am just engaged in a discussion trying to get at the truth. I don't know you at all and could have no criticism of you anyways. There is nothing gained by the route many take of personal assaults. I don't know why you call it 'straw man'. I was just asking about when you referred to homosexuality as an 'abomination' but called for embracing those people who practice it. Are there any other examples of a community that celebrates and has pride in what you would call an 'abomination' and we should specifically welcome them into the Republican Party? That question is at the crux of the issue because it deals with personal character and integrity.

[Hank Kerchief]

I attended public school..............in the dark ages (I'm in my mid-40's).

Well I attended public school a little earlier than that, and they actually taught something then, but that, as you certainly know, has all changed. Well, not exactly, since they do teach, or probably more accurately, propagandize or promote, a social agenda that includes multi-culturalism (whatever anyone does that is different is OK, unless it is different because a person is more intelligent, has more character, or is more ambitious) and the normalization of homosexuality, including encouraging the students to "experiment" with it.

Do you think the US Federal government, any state government, or any municipal government should support these new "educational" agendas?

Hank

[Looking for Diogenes]

I don't approve of divorce in the slightest. I find it an aberration and an abomination before God.

Who said that?

The vast majority of Republicans wouldn't call divorce an 'abomination' as RightOnline called homosexuality an 'abomination'.

God calls divorcees adulterers and calls adultery an abomination. You're right, most Republicans do not feel that way.

Divorce is considered normal, if regrettable, by most people in this country. Would you deny party membership to a divorced person? No, of course not. When it comes to party politics, a person's political inclination is more important than their sexual inclination.

[Double Eagle Sword of Justice]

If I have angered you, I apologize. There was no intent to offend. I just disagree with those who seek to normalize homosexuality by dismissing it as just another harmless lifestyle choice. I think that sets up a bad example for our kids and needs to be opposed. But IN NO WAY do I hate homosexuals. I have worked with my fair share because of my line of work (restaurant business) and have had no problems. It's just when people call their lifestyle an abomination but harmless at the same time that it raises questions for me. God bless you and yours. We will just have to agree to disagree. No offense taken on my part.

[Ricktex43]

Blinding Flash of the obvious: Here's where the Dems get their money: Noting that the leading homosexual lobby group, Human Rights Campaign, has raised upwards of $18 million in contributions for Democrat candidates, RUC’s web site states: Add to that Emily's List (liberal, feminazis) Unions (mostly Govt ones)-ie people without a clue of what makes capitalism run Hollywood (includes media) - see above Trial Lawyers- need I say more. Ever wonder how the Dems keep coming up with these idiotic positions that are antithetical to American Values? They are getting paid to do it.

[Hank Kerchief]

They're not corrupting mine.

So glad to hear you don't allow your children to watch TV, and home school them.

Hank

[gcruse]

 those in support of normalizing homosexuality must resort to
shouting down their detractors...

...how do you shout down someone
   over the Internet?  I don't even
   see anyone talking to you in allcaps.

....and banning any further discussion.

...That would be up to the forum owner,
   and you're still here, aren't you?

[Double Eagle Sword of Justice]

RightOnline said this: "I don't approve of divorce in the slightest. I find it an aberration and an abomination before God."

Then I asked for a similar abomination and you said 'divorce'. But I don't think most people hold that view. Most view their own divorce as a tragedy or something bad. Not something to have a pride parade about. Plus I have never heard of anyone say that having divorces is normal, healthy, and a gift from God. If you don't think of homosexuality as an 'abomination' like RightOnline, then it would be hard to answer the question. He/she made the comment and so that was why I was asking about other similar 'abominations', or communities of people who celebrated something like that with pride and viewed it as healthy and normal and a blessing. So far no one has been able to come up with an example.

[Old Fud]

Gays comprise 1-3% of the populace. It is reasonable to assume that less than half of this bloc vote Republican. There is no reason to offer homosexuals the olive branch of "normalcy" in the GOP if, in doing so, cultural conservatives bolt. And it is likely they will.

The 1-3% numbers will not grow or change. I'd say PC pandering was going on here, but to what end?

[RAT Patrol]

You might check out what your kids (if you have them) are being taught in the public school system.

I've read many intolerant posts by someone with your same name bashing pro-family posters.

There are countless examples of the government "tolerating" behavior it doesn't condone. There are countless other examples of the government not tolerating behavior that is deemed unhealthy, whether for the individual or society at large. I am not advocating laws for everything under the sun, but I do think the government is not wrong to support and encourage heterosexual marriage and NOT homosexual marriage. Look to San Francisco as an example. They have huge problems with STD's and AIDS. The government should not encourage behavior that is unhealthy.

Gay marriage will lead to gay adoption. Where are the studies proving this is good for kids? We should not perform social experiements on children. I am in favor of gays raising all children that have been produced from a gay union. The fact is, whether you blame God or natural selection, gays unions do not produce the future generations, they have nothing to do with the survival of our species and are therefore less important even if you discount the health danger they expose us to.

Name calling has no place in polite society. We are free to make bad choices (most) in this country. But, we don't have to put our heads in the sand and pretend that all behavior is equal because it isn't.

When you have two men acting like two women but relating to each other like members of the opposite sex, don't you think it is logical to ask "is there perhaps a problem with this behavior?"

[Double Eagle Sword of Justice]

Would you deny party membership to a divorced person?

Of course not! I never said anything of the sort for either homosexuals or divorced people. Why are you making that stuff up? RightOnline said we should welcome people who celebrate and 'abomination' as comrades-in-arms. There is no analogy with divorced people unless you can cite an example of a community of divorced people who cherish and celibrate it as a lifestyle they see as a gift from God. I would deny no one party membership. I was just questioning whether we should pander to them or condone the behavior they celebrate.

[Pushi]

I am with you.

[RAT Patrol]

RightOnline, mostly I agree with you. I am not in favor of the harshness I've seen others spew out on threads. However, I differ with you on one point. I have come to believe that ultimately, it is about the gay agenda. We cannot use these people for our own gain and then ignore their demands. I think it is kinder to let them know upfront. I will be their friend. I don't have a problem with that. I will fight with them for a common cause. I have no problem with that. But let them know up front that I will never ever support their agenda. Period. (We are not really that far apart, but I believe they need to know they have no chance right from the beginning. If they respect me by not pushing their lifestyle on me and mine, I will return the favor.)

[RAT Patrol]

Thanks Pushi. I was feeling alone. I do not hate these people. I have a niece who is totally messed up and she is also a lesbian. I know more than people think about this subject. They deserve our love and compassion. Even my lesbian niece says every lesbian she knows was abused by a man. It's sad and who can blame them in many ways. They don't need our scorn. But, they don't need our praise either. They just need our friendship and our patience. But we do not need to perpetuate the situation by encouraging children to give it a try. That's just wrong.

[Double Eagle Sword of Justice]

You stated my sentiments exactly in terms better than I could have put together. It's about being up front and honest like you say. Thanks for expressing perfectly the feelings many of us have.

[Looking for Diogenes]

Most view their own divorce as a tragedy or something bad. Not something to have a pride parade about. Plus I have never heard of anyone say that having divorces is normal, healthy, and a gift from God.

So your problem is with parades? If divorced people had pride parades you would shun them, and if gay people didn't have parades you would welcome them?

[gcruse]

 We cannot use these people for our own
gain and then ignore their demands.

It's a good thing you don't
run the RNC, because that's
exactly what 'we' do to
libertarians in the form
of the Liberty Caucus.

[cutlass]

I dont think the GOP should be pandering to 2% of the population.

[Double Eagle Sword of Justice]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I don't like to talk about my personal family business, but my wife and I have had a similar tragedy in our extended family. A cousin we have always cherished has contracted AIDS and is not doing well healthwise. After a long talk with him (he's only 27), he admitted that he had been molested as a child and that may have contributed to him going into the lifestyle. He says that most of his other male gay friends were also molested and the common pain they have. Now that his health is getting worse he desperately wants to get away from that lifestyle and heal. It is very sad whenever we visit him but there is always hope.