Replies

I smell a lawsuit in the works from the ACLU theophobes.... Of course we should! Its on our greenbacks & coins. It ought to good enough for our schools.

Whatever may be allowed or not allowed in the government schools--prayers, mottos, Bible clubs, etc., is so totally uninteresting. Are prayers allowed in brothels? Who cares?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Where in the hell does it say in that amendment that schools must be purged of any rererence to God? It directy states that congress shall make no law one way or the other.

How has that been twisted in such an Orwellian fashion that any reference to God must be eliminated from anything that receives a single dollar from the government?

Even if local governments wanted to build a freakin' church on school property (which, incidentally, I wouldn't be for) I don't see how that would be considered congress making a law respecting the establishment of religion.

This is plain f**king black and white, clear English for God's sake. What the hell happend?

"In God We Trust" - all others pay cash.

If we trust in God, "In God We Trust" should be everywhere it can be seen, and this is natural law, above the courtroom meatgrinders. If we don't trust in God, it doesn't matter whether we profess it or not. Simple as that. Like Bush says, you're either with us or against us. Seems like that stand fits an awful lot of the cancerous thinking that is taking over this Nation today.

"IN GOD WE TRUST": IN THE SCHOOLS, YES OR NO?

Sure beats "In the NEA we trust" or "In the ACLU we trust" or "In the GOVERNMENT we trust" or "In MEN we trust"

Of course trusting in nothing is always an option. < /sarcasm >

How about: "In God Some Of Us Trust"

House vote advances national motto bill
RICHMOND - Without debate, the House of Delegates on Friday voted overwhelmingly for legislation requiring that the national motto, ``In God We Trust,'' be posted in every Virginia courtroom.
Del. Robert G. Marshall's bill passed on an 88-11 vote a day after his companion bill requiring that the same motto be posted in public schools advanced to the Senate by a similar margin.
Civil liberties groups oppose the legislation as the state forcing religious expression onto its citizens.
Marshall, R-Manassas, said he believed that inscribing the motto that appears on U.S. currency in courthouses would make proceedings more solemn, provide an expression of hope and promote good citizenship.
- ASSOCIATED PRESS
Source

Ten Commandments legislation rewritten
By MICHAEL NEIBAUER
Journal staff writer
Del. L. Scott Lingamfelter, R-Woodbridge, has rewritten his Ten Commandments legislation into what he believes is a constitutionally defensible and value-driven, rather than a religious document.
In the original bill, Lingamfelter proposed that local school divisions be given the option to place the Ten Commandments in their schools. After a debate two weeks ago before the Courts of Justice Committee that ended without a vote, Lingamfelter said he realized his legislation might not stand up to a First Amendment litmus test.
So he went back to the drawing board, read related court decisions and came up with the ``transcendent values in historical texts" bill, an amendment in the form of a substitute.
The rewrite authorizes the creation of a single poster which includes the Ten Commandments, the first sentence of the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, two clauses from the Constitution of Virginia and the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
The state Board of Education, in consultation with the attorney general's office, would develop guidelines as to exactly how the poster is designed and where it is displayed in public schools.
``What I'm really trying to do is give local school boards the option to put before kids the values that kind of knit the system of law and freedom," said Lingamfelter, whose altered bill is scheduled for debate Monday in the Courts of Justice Commttee.
The combination of the four texts, he said, demonstrates a ``rich, rich history of linked values" and the evolution of law in America.
Besides the Ten Commandments, the three remaining texts define the basic American ideals of equality, freedom from state established religion and freedom of religious expression.
``I've scanned [the substitute bill] and I think it's a much better approach than the first bill in terms of overcoming some of the constitutional objections people had at that first hearing," said Del. Robert F. McDonnell, R-Virginia Beach, a Courts of Justice Committee member.
McDonnell said it was once common in law schools to use the Ten Commandments, in conjunction with other historical documents, to trace the modern legal system back to its Judeo-Christian beginnings. But that educational technique, he said, has been forgotten over time as schools grow more secular.
``All [Lingamfelter is] trying to do is say, `Look, if you're going to use religious materials in your schools for a secular purpose, then it's OK to do that,'" McDonnell said. ``You can't proselytize, but at the same time you don't want to discourage any facet of religion."
Lingamfelter said he expects the posters would be placed in history and government classrooms where the texts would be applicable to the learning taking place. But those decisions are up to the Board of Education and the attorney general, who would be responsible for defending the law if the state or a local school district is taken to court.
``Where I expect the opponents to fall short, where I hope they fall short, is the recognition that we have historical linkage here," Lingamfelter said. ``I just feel like it's time to stand up and be counted and not be ashamed of the values that underline our nation."

Hmm - I misunderstood the title. I thought it was an assertion that we trust in G-d, then questioning whether we trust our schools.

I would have answered a resounding "NO"

Yesterday afternoon a publik skool student saw my daughter coloring a map including Alaska. The straight-A student asked my daughter what Alaska was doing so far north. She indicated that it was supposed to be in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Washington State. This is a 9th grader!

So, I don't trust in the skools. I homeschool.

Shalom.

Feb 08, 2002

House approves commandments bill
BY PAMELA STALLSMITH
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER

Despite objections from some lawmakers over constitutionality and propriety, the House of Delegates gave initial approval to a bill that would let public schools post the Ten Commandments.
The House voted 53-44 in support of the measure that would permit display of the commandments. That followed an intense, 40-minute debate laced with legal and religious references.
Also yesterday, the House granted preliminary support to an anti-domestic violence bill backed by Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore.
The bill would remove from marital rape cases the requirements that spouses be living apart or that the person charged must have caused bodily injury by the use of force for a spouse to be convicted. Final action on both proposals is likely today.
Del. L. Scott Lingamfelter, R-Prince William, said his Ten Commandments proposal is about values, not religion.
His measure would allow local school boards to decide whether they want to post "The Transcendental Values of a Lawful Society," which would include the Ten Commandments and parts of the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. and Virginia constitutions.
"The display of these documents in no way compels a religious practice any more than if someone were to view this body praying before the beginning of each session," he said on the House floor.
Lingamfelter, a retired Army colonel, originally proposed the display of only the Ten Commandments. But he revised his bill amid concerns it wasn't constitutional. If it becomes law, the state Board of Education and the attorney general's office would have to come up with guidelines for the posting.
Opponents charged the measure violates the separation of church and state. They cited a 1980 U.S. Supreme Court decision that struck down as unconstitutional a Kentucky law that required the posting of the commandments in public schools.
Del. Dwight Clinton Jones, D-Richmond, and a Baptist minister, said the bill is religious because the Ten Commandments is Scripture.
"To me the word of God is holy, and I don't want the attorney general editing it," he said. "I don't want a committee taking it out of context."
Del. Albert C. Pollard Jr., D-Lancaster, said the bill runs contrary to the spirit of the Statute of Religious Freedom.
"Here we are taking a sacred document and we're putting it next to worthy but secular documents and, in my mind, trivializing it," he said. "In my mind, they are not worthy of being placed next to the word of God. . . . As a Christian I find this offensive."
Del. Brian J. Moran, D-Alexandria, said the high court made its ruling "without equivocation."
"Just 30 days ago we swore to uphold the constitutions of the U.S. and Virginia," he said. "This case has clearly been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. I'd ask you to follow the U.S. Constitution and defeat this legislation."
Gov. Mark R. Warner has not taken a position on the bill, though his lawyer is reviewing the proposal because of constitutional concerns, said spokeswoman Ellen Qualls.
Lingamfelter read a letter from Francis S. Ferguson, a deputy attorney general, that said the proposed statute would be constitutional because of the provision for guidelines.
Del. Robert G. Marshall, R-Prince William, said the commandments hold universal values.
"These are rules that govern human behavior for our benefit," he said. "So it's very surprising to me that we should shield children from statements like 'Thou shalt not commit adultery.'"
Five Democrats and the assembly's two independents joined 46 Republicans in supporting the bill. Fifteen Republicans and 29 Democrats voted against it. Three delegates didn't vote.
The House also held an emotional debate over the anti-domestic violence bill, sponsored by Del. Terrie L. Suit, R-Virginia Beach, which toughens state laws.
Among its provisions, the legislation establishes a state coordinator for programs for victims of domestic violence and calls for the establishment of training standards for law-enforcement personnel on handling such cases.
The marital rape provision generated opposition from several lawmakers, who said changing the law could invite false rape claims by women who are trying to gain an advantage in a divorce situation. The House rejected an amendment to keep the current marital rape provision.
"A charge of rape could intimidate a male to make agreements for divorce or child support," Marshall said, with the threat of felony prosecution and public humiliation.
Supporters of the bill dismissed that argument, explaining rape charges aren't prosecuted lightly. They said such cases are based on evidence, not one person's word against another's.
Suit said the bill was a matter of fairness. Married women should be afforded the same protections under state law as unmarried women, she said.
Source

the national motto, "In God We Trust."

I thought the national motto was "e plurbus unum"?

If it cannot be in the "GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS" then it should not be on anything including our MONEY....

Feb 11, 2002

Modified `In God We Trust' bill advances
LARRY O'DELL
Associated Press Writer

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) _ Legislation requiring Virginia public schools to post signs saying ``In God We Trust'' advanced to the Senate floor Monday after a committee amended the bill to put the message in a more secular context.
The Education and Health Committee voted 9-6 to endorse the bill, sponsored by Sen. Nick Rerras, R-Norfolk. The Senate will vote on the bill Tuesday.
``In God We Trust'' has appeared on the nation's coins since 1908 and was designated by Congress as the official national motto 46 years ago, Rerras said.
``The nation has long recognized this motto as very inspirational,'' he said. ``The motto gives us hope for the future, and it helps us persevere in difficult times.''
Sen. R. Edward Houck, D-Spotsylvania, proposed the amendment to add after ``In God We Trust'' the notation: ``National motto enacted by Congress, 1956.''
Houck said he wanted to make sure students view the motto from a historical perspective rather than a religious one.
``The reality is that this is the motto of this nation,'' he said. ``On that level, it doesn't offend me. But if this is an attempt to indoctrinate, I've got a problem with it.''
The amendment did not satisfy all of the bill's critics.
``When you start to do these kind of things you wind up not furthering a belief in God but trivializing it,'' said Sen. Richard Saslaw, D-Fairfax.
Sen. Janet Howell, D-Reston, said the message is inherently religious even with Houck's amendment. She said it is improperly to force such a message on an increasingly diverse population.
``We are trampling on people's rights,'' she said. ``The result is harmful to families, to children and ultimately to the religious freedom we all hold dear.''
However, Houck said public schools already routinely post the Pledge of Allegiance, which includes the phrase, ``One nation under God.''
``That posting has not brought down Western civilization,'' Houck said. ``I don't think this is the end of the world.''
The House of Delegates has passed bills requiring public schools and courthouses to post ``In God We Trust.'' Those bills will be heard next by the same committee that revised and endorsed the Rerras bill.

Source

This is right-wing big government, and should be rejected on principle. Right-wing big government isn't an acceptible substitute for left-wing big government.

Bill to post motto in schools approved
By LOUIS HANSEN, The Virginian-Pilot
© February 13, 2002
RICHMOND -- Students have long turned to him in trouble and in good fortune.
They've asked him for strength to conquer challenges great and small.
They've beseeched him when pop quizzes and calculus finals plopped down on their desks.
Next fall, Virginia students may very well be seeing him every day in the hallways of their public school.
A bill to require posting the national motto, ``In God We Trust,'' in every public school won easy approval Tuesday in the Senate.
The measure, SB608, introduced by Norfolk Sen. Nick Rerras, requires public school boards to prominently and conspicuously post ``In God We Trust, the National Motto, enacted by Congress in 1956.''
A similar measure sailed through the Republican-dominated House of Delegates. The bill must be signed by the governor to become law.
Rerras, a Republican, said the country was founded on Christian principles, and the motto has a long history dating to the early 19th century.
He argued that during times of crisis, like that following Sept. 11, public school children can draw strength and patriotism from the words. ``It gives inspiration and hope,'' he said.
This week, it brought heated debate.
Senate Minority Leader Richard L. Saslaw, D-Fairfax, said the bill and other measures that passed the House requiring the motto to be posted in other government buildings would trivialize religion and faith.
He added that it would do nothing to promote moral behavior or inspire patriotism. ``Believe you me,'' he said, ``this is not where patriotism comes from.''
On Monday, Saslaw and other Democrats on the Senate Education and Health Committee argued that the prominent posting would be offensive to non-Christians.
Sen. R. Edward Houck, who eventually supported an amended version of the bill, asked Rerras if he was bringing the proposal as an act of religious faith.
Rerras, a devout Christian, responded that he believed in the motto. ``I'm not trying to advance any faith or sect or religion,'' he said.
The measure also allows the attorney general to provide legal defense for local school boards if the law is challenged.
Source

Religious liberty
     THERE IS WIDESPREAD consternation over the flurry of what have been dubbed ``God bills" in the Virginia Legislature this year.
    The General Assembly passed a bill requiring schools to post the national motto ``In God We Trust." A similar measure to post the Ten Commandments died last week in the Senate after clearing the House of Delegates.
    Charles Haynes, senior scholar at the Freedom Forum's First Amendment Center in Arlington www.freedomforum.org, says this phenomenon is nothing new. A turn to religion has occurred during every major crisis in American history.
    ``In God We Trust" showed up on coins after the Civil War - a reaction, Haynes pointed out, ``to what many people felt was God's judgment on America."
    Congress made it the national motto in 1954 during the Red Scare, another time of fear and shaken national confidence, when the words ``under God" were also added to the Pledge of Allegiance.
    But Haynes, an expert on the First Amendment, told The Journal there is a way to reconcile free religious expression, even in public schools, with the Constitution's clear dictate that ``government has no business imposing, endorsing or denigrating religion."
    Although many people still have ``a distorted image of public schools as `religion-free zones,'" two states, liberal California and conservative Utah, have statewide projects focused on promoting religious liberty in public education.
    The so-called 3R projects (rights, responsibilities and respect) train educators to respect the religious freedom of their students, including their right not to profess any religion at all, while teaching them about other religions in a way that passes both educational and constitutional muster.
    Over the past decade, Haynes says, a consensus has gradually emerged that religion not only can be, but should be taught in public schools without violating students' religious liberties or the Constitution's clear prohibitions.
    The First Amendment Center has a teachers' guide now being used in Utah and California. It has 23 sponsors, including the National Education Association, the American Jewish Congress, the National Association of Evangelicals and the Islamic Council on Education.
    The outline, sent to every school district in the nation in January 2000, is ``a comprehensive guide to getting it right," Haynes said.
    ``Many people believe the First Amendment keeps all religion out" of public schools. But teachers and administrators following the guide learn that students have a constitutional right to distribute religious literature, share their faith with other students and pray either alone or in groups - as long as those activities are not disruptive.
    The Utah 3Rs project began in 1997, the one in California in 1994. Instead of providing fodder for lawsuits, just the opposite has happened.
    ``These projects are preventive lawyering," Haynes said. ``They are what keeps school districts from having to deal with court challenges. Districts with the program are less likely to have a court challenge than districts that don't have such a policy in place."
    The Virginia Department of Education should look into a statewide 3R program for some preventive legislating as well.
Fairfax Journal

"IN GOD WE TRUST": IN THE SCHOOLS, YES OR NO?

I doesn't matter. You can't polish a turd.

Eliminate public education!

Courtroom ''In God We Trust'' bill sent to governor
Associated Press
© February 20, 2002
RICHMOND -- Legislation requiring judges to post ``In God We Trust'' signs in state courtrooms is on its way to Gov. Mark R. Warner's desk, where its fate is uncertain.
Warner has not taken a position on the bill and will have his counsel analyze whether it is constitutional, spokeswoman Ellen Qualls said.
Even if Warner signs the bill, Virginians are unlikely to see the signs displayed in courtrooms anytime soon. The Senate added an amendment requiring the state to pay for the signs, but there is no money in the proposed state budget for that purpose.
Del. Robert G. Marshall, R-Prince William, did not object to the Senate amendment when his bill was returned to the House on Wednesday. Delegates voted 94-5 to accept the amendment and send the bill to Warner's desk.
The House and Senate have passed slightly different versions of a bill to require public schools to post ``In God We Trust'' signs. That legislation, which does not include the funding requirement, has not yet been sent to the governor.
Source