Posted on 01/18/2002 1:10:57 PM PST by Notwithstanding
Fides News 020118
BRAZIL Rio de Janeiro (Fides) Today Friday January 18, the only schism in the Church on the most Catholic of continents, Latin America, is over. Brazilian Catholics who had followed the line of the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, are being welcomed back to the bosom of the Church after 20 years of separation. The "traditionalists", as the group is called, led by Bishop Licinio Rangel and 26 priests, are mostly in the state of Rio de Janeiro, in Campos dos Goytacazes region. They have decided to return to full communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Rome. The decision was strongly opposed by Mgr. Bernard Fellay, head of the Saint Pius X Fraternity, who even traveled to Brazil to try to persuade the group not to make the step of reconciliation with Rome. The official ceremony, with the reading of the statement of welcome written by Pope John Paul II, will take place in Campos, at Sao Salvador Cathedral at 6pm. After reciting the Creed and singing the Te Deum the congregation will move to the church Imaculado Coracao de Nossa Senhora do Rosario de Fatima built by the traditionalists for a prayer to Our Lady. The Holy Father will be represented by Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, Prefect of the Vaticans Congregation for the Clergy. Others present will include the Nuncio in Brazil, Archbishop Alfio Rapisarda; emeritus Archbishop of Rio, Cardinal Eugenio Sales; the Bishop of Campos Roberto Guimaraes; the Metropolitan Archbishop of Niteroi Carlos Alberto Navarro. Also present an official of the Congregation for the Clergy Rev. Fernando Guimaraes who spoke to Fides on the eve of the ceremony. "The great victory today is for Christ and his Church", Fr Fernando says, explaining that reconciliation began in 2000, during the Great Jubilee, when the group made a pilgrimage to Rome and was welcomed by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos with a lunch and dialogue. Not long afterwards the group sent a letter with a request for reintegration which was granted by Pope John Paul II in a document, which will be read during the ceremony, containing indications to be followed. From now on they recognise: the authority of the Pope as Vicar of Christ and Shepherd of the Church; the legitimacy of the Second Vatican Council; the validity of the Mass approved by Pope Paul VI. The Traditionalists have permission to celebrate Mass in Latin (St Pius V rite ), using the Pope John XXIII Missal. During these twenty years the Traditionalists have built churches and chapels, opened a seminary, a school, social centres and monasteries. Today in Brazil there are about 28,000 of them. The priests will form the Apostolic Administration of St Jean Marie Vianney, a form of ecclesiastical circumscription which will depend directly on the Pope. Their Bishop Licinio Rangel, now officially recognised Apostolic Administrator, says he and his priests will travel to Rome to thank the Pope personally. Bishop Rangel says that thanks to John Paul II the diocese of Campos is now in peace and "in full communion with the Vatican". He also said that the diocesan Bishop will continue to be Mgr. Roberto Guimaraes whom he praised highly attributing to him the merit for the end of the schism. Fr Fernando Guimaraes told Fides that in Campos there is "an air of great rejoicing and participation". This event is "reunion in the spirit of Jesus Christ <that they may be one>". Fr Guimares sees the event as "a moment of great historical value because the schism had its apex in this Pontificate of Pope Paul II, and now during the same Pontificate it is healed" and he added that "this is the first group to request reintegration. Dialogue with other groups remains open but, time is in Gods hands". The Traditionalist Catholics of Campos diocese were followers of the French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the Brazilian Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer, contrary to the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. In a joint celebration in Switzerland, both men ordained four bishops, in open contrast with directions issued by Pope John Paul II. The situation in Campos is isolated while in other places dialogue is hampered by a certain rigidity on the part of the interlocutors. It is estimated that Lefebvre followers are about 300 priests and circa a million faithful. Some lay groups are forming communities which have no contact either with the Catholic Church or with the Traditionalist. (Fides 18/1/2002)
Lefebvre Catholics opt for full communion with Rome
Palazzo "de Propaganda Fide"
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e-mail: fides@fides.va
The church doors are but a block from my home-those same doors from which we removed our three children in fear of the perverted actions of sick clergy and a religion subverted by statests, left wing socialists. Those doors flow a constant stream of illiterate, ill-mannered, people who are alien in dress & speach. I know whereof I speak. Your insults do not change the fact that an institution ( & some people associated with it ) harbor and assist felons in committing felonies. It is entirely possible that in the very near future, legal sanctions may fall on those people. They might take care that they have legal advice on assisting criminals.
Mr. Buchanan certainly does ring all the correct bells. I can see people reaching for the fear button.
Second point: Your stats on current US Mass attendance are about 10 years out of date. The latest figures are more on the order of 20-30%, if my memory serves me well. So by that measure, your parish is one of the better ones. You should thank God for that. Many Americans belong to a parish without a priest assigned to it.
I still would be mighty obliged if you would answer the following question: how many vocations has your parish produced in the last 30 years? The parish where I grew up, which is has about 30,000 members and is thoroughly laden with the "spirit of vatican 2", produced exactly 1 vocation since 1970.
About 75%. See an earlier post of mine on this thread.
patent wrote:Care to substantiate this? How many FSSP priests have given Communion in the hand, where and when? How many have concelebrated Novus Ordo Masses?
The above is an exageration, but the Vatican has, IMHO, treated the FSSP rather shabily. They were supposed to get a bishop. They haven't yet. The Vatican has also been intervening in their internal affairs and undermining the authority of their superior in ways that if done to another order would produce outrage.
On the other hand, FSSP priets are not forced to celebrate the Novus Ordo, and they are free to refuse to give communion in the hand.
I've only been in this parish for ten years. In that period, three men from our parish have been ordained along with four permanent deacons.
>>>They were supposed to get a bishop. They haven't yet.
I didn't know they were supposed to get a Bishop. Who promised them that?
>>>>> The Vatican has also been intervening in their internal affairs and undermining the authority of their superior in ways that if done to another order would produce outrage.
Do you realize the liberals are whining about the exact same thing? The Vatican is exercising more and more control over a variety of groups. Its a response to the problems we have had.
>>>>>On the other hand, FSSP priets are not forced to celebrate the Novus Ordo, and they are free to refuse to give communion in the hand.
There is so often so much misinformation over this.
Dominus Vobiscum,
patent
Once upon a time the term cult only meant a system of belief. I think the change in use is not for the better. It almost implies that fervent belief in something is bad.
patent
You are also right that changes in the mass are only part of the problem.
Okay, perhaps "disgrace" is a bit strong, but my point still stands. What's considered, and objectively qualifies as, a good mass attendence rate today would have been considered poor before Vatican 2.
You cannot avoid the facts: two key measures of the health of the Church, vocations mass attendence, declined drastically after Varican 2. Other measures, such as separations, annulment requests, baptisms, and conversions also took a nose dive. Now that doesn't necessarily mean they were all caused by Vatican 2 and the fabrication of a new rite of mass, as Cardinal Raztinger puts it, but it sure looks suspicious if you ask me.
No liberal order received the same treatment as the FSSP, especially considering the things some liberal orders have done. I suggest you read up on it.
And BTW, if you think the Vatican is cracking down on modernist heretics, you are deluding yourself. Why is Richard McBrien rountinly allowed to publish heresy in diocesan newspapers around the country? Why is nothing done about American Bishops such as Weekland and Mahony flagrently violating liturgical rules and rubrics and promoting heresy at in their seminaries and convents? You can count the number of modernists cracked down upon by the Vatican since the 1960's, but those left unmolested number in the hundreds.
You cannot avoid the facts: two key measures of the health of the Church, vocations mass attendence, declined drastically after Varican 2.In the US and other Western countries, true. Vocations (or at least seminarians) are now at a higher level then pre V2 worldwide, though they havent risen back to pre V2 levels here in the US.
Now that doesn't necessarily mean they were all caused by Vatican 2 and the fabrication of a new rite of mass, as Cardinal Raztinger puts it, but it sure looks suspicious if you ask me.Im relatively comfortable that the new Rite played a factor, the question to me is how much of one. I think its biggest problems stem from the translation into the vernacular, I cant believe it was approved by the Vatican back then. The perversion of V2 by the libs caused problems as well. Ive read the documents from the Council though, and there isnt much in there to support the things the libs do. Bishops who stayed faithful to what the Council said and what JPII is doing have plenty of vocations. Its the dioceses that dont that have problems, like you mentioned, places with Weaklands and Mahoneys.
No liberal order received the same treatment as the FSSP, especially considering the things some liberal orders have done. I suggest you read up on it.My friend, I have read up on it. Should you think there is something I might have missed, feel free to point it out but it is likely I have seen it. I have also heard things about some of the liberals. Im not going to argue over this as its just getting to be a spitting match, but sometimes its not just your friends who get pissed on, though that is what gets noticed. Especially when a group like the Society tries to make a big deal out of it to keep their own faithful on the Res.
And BTW, if you think the Vatican is cracking down on modernist heretics, you are deluding yourself. Why is Richard McBrien rountinly allowed to publish heresy in diocesan newspapers around the country?You first complain about the Vatican intervening in a worldwide order that exists solely because the Vatican approved it in the first place, and then you complain because the Vatican does not intervene in a plethora of Bishops personal newspapers? Last time I checked the Vatican wasnt supervising what the Fraternity puts in its newsletter either, have I missed something? I doubt it, the Vatican doesnt have the time to intervene to this level.
Why is nothing done about American Bishops such as Weekland and Mahony flagrently violating liturgical rules and rubrics and promoting heresy at in their seminaries and convents?I dont know. This is something that does bug me, but you have to recognize it is different then the Fraternity. The Fraternity is not a Cardinal with its own geographic jurisdiction, the traditions (customs) of how you deal with each are just very different.
You can count the number of modernists cracked down upon by the Vatican since the 1960's, but those left unmolested number in the hundreds.They will die off, we wont. I agree, I wish more were shut down.
Dominus Vobiscum
patent +AMDG
I just wanted to add something regarding the Novus Ordo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when Paul VI introduced the Novus Ordo, he mandated it's use in the vernacular exclusively. Unfortunately, so many troublesome Latinists kept attending the immemorial mass through whatever means they could. In 1974, Paul VI allowed the the Novus Ordo to be said in Latin in order to get people to stop attending the old mass. In my view, the Novus Ordo in Latin is the worst possible way to hear mass. It just doesn't fit with the "spirit" of the Novus Ordo, since the people can't understand it, and it's motive of getting people away from the old mass seems devious and under-handed.
Excuse the bumping of an old thread. I was just researching this issue myself.
Apparently EWTN is already aware of this incident, and believes the picture is real. http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=315010&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2002&Author=&Keyword=Pope+Kisses+Koran&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=1&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=
I'm not sure if EWTN doesn't allow linking to their search results, so if this doesn't work, go to http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/search.asp and put in Pope Kisses Koran and you'll find the response in question, to whit:
"All that the Pope is doing is paying respect to those of other religions. Be assured that the Pope still holds that the fullness of truth resides only in the Catholic Church. Do no be disturbed by the reports of the press, who always seem to get mixed up when it comes to theological matters.
Dr. Geraghty"
Any further input on this would be appreciated. I've heard also that the picture is in dispute, but again, EWTN seems to think it's real. (that doesn't mean it is of course)
Even if it is though, I think Dr. Geraghty's response is sufficient to end the matter.
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