Was Richard Reid 'Shoe Bomber No. 2'?

WorldNetDaily ^ | 1/17/02 | Debkafile

[gohabsgo]

Was Richard Reid, the Briton indicted this week on charges of attempted murder -- after failing to blow up American Airlines Flight 63 from Paris to Miami on Dec. 22 -- the first shoe bomber?

DEBKA-Net-Weekly reports a spreading conviction among aviation and counter-terror experts that he was Shoe Bomber No. 2, and that American Airlines Flight 587 was brought down 40 days earlier over Queens, N.Y., by Shoe Bomber No. 1.

Their argument springs from a simple question: Why did not Reid simply lock himself in the bathroom and ignite the fuse to the bomb without risk of interference? The answer is that he was instructed to position himself in window seat No. A 19, next to where the wing attaches to the body of the plane to follow the example of Shoe Bomber No. 1.

A bomb exploding in this position would allow the plastic explosive to erupt through the wall of the cabin and rupture the wing where jet fuel is stored. This position was also close to the center fuel tank in the body of the plane between the wings. If Reid had not been wrestled down by the flight attendants and passengers, the explosives in his shoes would have ripped a hole in the side of the plane and then ignited the fuel stored in the wing.

This, according to DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources, is precisely what happened on the AA flight 587 Airbus bound for Santo Domingo, 40 days previously, with tragic consequences. All 255 passengers and crew died, as well as five people on the ground.

The official explanation is that the crash was caused by turbulence from another jet, mechanical defects in the composite materials in the tail of the plane -- causing the tail to fall off -- and pilot error. DEBKA's sources say that explanation does not cover the evidence. Several witnesses report that a small explosion occurred on the right-hand side of the fuselage, before the second big explosion on the right wing. “It was only then that the plane fell apart.”

As the plane nose-dived, the tail section dropped off and then both engines separated from the airliner, each engine landing over 800 feet away from the crash site. One aviation expert says there has never been a crash in the history of accidental aviation disasters in which both engines broke away from the plane at the same time.

According to his explanation – based on the physical axiom that every action produces an equal and opposite reaction -- a high-velocity explosion on one side of an airliner will cause expelling gases to create a rocket effect that will push the plane in the opposite direction, which weakened the tail.

With the damaged tail rudder only partially attached to the aircraft, the pilot tried to correct the plane’s attitude by using the rudder foot controls. When the plane did not respond, the pilot would have attempted to push the right rudder harder alternating between his left and right foot. This would have been recorded in the black box as “over response” and therefore pilot error.

The violent sideways motion of the aircraft body, produced by the explosion exhaust, would account for the two jet engines falling to the ground, according to the expert source. Thus, although Shoe Bomber No. 1 got away with carrying out his mission of terror, fortunately for the 197 aboard AA Flight 63 Richard Reid was stopped in the nick of time.

[John H K]

The official explanation is that the crash was caused by turbulence from another jet, mechanical defects in the composite materials in the tail of the plane -- causing the tail to fall off -- and pilot error. DEBKA's sources say that explanation does not cover the evidence. Several witnesses report that a small explosion occurred on the right-hand side of the fuselage, before the second big explosion on the right wing. “It was only then that the plane fell apart.”

1) DEBKA are liars. There currently is no official explanation for the crash.

Incidentally, at no point has terrorism been officially ruled out. What has been repeatedly stated is that there is no evidence of terrorism in the crash.

2) The only "Sources" DEBKA has are other internet foil hatters. Don't believe for a second DEBKA has any inside sources of any usefulness in this investigation.

3) And the explosion of a shoe bomb on the side of the passenger cabin would be IMMEDIATELY obvious in the wreckage with a few days....even after impact, explosion, and fire on the ground.

There's a reason NTSB believes the wreckage instead of eyewitnesses. The problem with the foil hatters is the NTSB limits access to the wreckage on the ground to trained, responsible folks; what the foil hatters would like is to allow the general public to wander around the wreckage and bodies and run off with pieces of whatever they find. Thus, the foil hatters have to elevate the only evidence they have direct access to, the eyewitness reports (which are the LEAST useful and MOST inaccurate pieces of evidence in most any crash investigation) to paramount importance.

4) There are eyewitness who reported no in air explosion (including one who saw the ENTIRE flight of 587 from the plane behind it). But the foil hatters simply don't bother to record or mention those.

5) The vertical stab came off well before anything else did. There isn't the slightest scrap of bomb damage on it, as we've all seen the pictures. And how does even a show bomb in the rear lavatory knock the vert stab off in such a fashion?

[mrustow]

As Debka has a spotty record, I won't take this as a smoking gun (plausible, yes). But of this much, I'm certain: in the minutes and hours and days immediately following 587's crash, THE FEDS BELIEVED it had been taken down by a terrorist act. To my mind, there is no other explanation of the feds' irrational, contradictory behavior, in floating one crazy trial balloon after another, to explain the crash.

[archy]

After all this time I should know to just flag you when I have a research question :)

Me, a beat-up ol' newspaper transportation writer and morgue factchecker? How would I know any of those things, or where to find 'em?

But feel free to flag or FReepmail me anytime I might be able to assist.

-archy-/-

[copycat]

November 17, I settled on an explosion near the right wing...Post 62...

post 62...

[John H K]

I think Debka nailed it this time!

There is NOTHING in this DEBKA article that hasn't been posted by morons and nitwits on FR about 587 for the last month. It's TOTALLY unsourced, and every scrap of purported information is actually just specualation that has been posted by every foil hatter in the world.

The main talents of DEBKA are twofold:

1)Simply making stuff up that sounds interesting

2)Repackaging old info or speculation from other sources and fooling clueless twits into thinking it's a "DEBKA scoop!"

[archy]

1) DEBKA are liars. There currently is no official explanation for the crash.

Or at least no official U.S. explanation for the crash....

-archy-/-

[UCANSEE2]

so far 3 other posters have posted a link to the passenger list. Start at beginning of thread and search down, you will see them.

[gohabsgo]

wow you are really brilliant. why didn't I think of that? thanks for your thoughtful help.

[mrustow]

3. Why would a shoe bomber light his fuse immediately after takeoff? Why would he not wait until the plane was out of sight and over open water, so there was no risk that the stunt would be detected?

Wasn't the Irish/New York Firefighter who offered his thoughts to Osama at the NY rally for cops and firefighters when he said… "Osama Bin Laden, I have a message for you. You can kiss my royal Irish American Ass," from Queens? And where did Flight 587 go down?

Perhaps the idea was to do so with the Airbus.

-archy-/-

Fascinating thought. That was a fireman named Moran, whose brother, Battalion Commander Moran (FReeper "BCM"), lived in Belle Harbor, Queens (as do I), until he fell on 911. (My wife passed BCM's funeral service on her way to work, and called me to take our baby to it, but I was on line at FR, so she couldn't get through!). I believe the brother (FReeper "Royal IA") also lives in Belle Harbor, which is exactly where 587 crashed.

[copycat]

John HK's rebuttal to this theory [paraphrased]..."Debka is bad and you guys are morons and nitwits."

I kneel in awe...

[veryconernedamerican]

well during take-off would be the best time to do so, since all flight attendents are strapped in and no one is milling about. Debka has some fat out false stories, but the idea that this was a bomb from inside is not a big stretch, more likely in the rear of the plane though

[John H K]

To my mind, there is no other explanation of the feds' irrational, contradictory behavior, in floating one crazy trial balloon after another, to explain the crash.

1) A great many of these speculative "trial balloons" DID NOT ORIGINATE FROM NTSB, but came from assorted talking heads and airline "experts" trotted out by news organizations. And while some did, MOST of the speculation and elaborate theorizing about the various theories again, did not come from NTSB.

2) NTSB is required to hold press conferences and they did. They report on the investigation and what is being investigated. A variety of theories obviously will emerge early in an investigation, and EVERYTHING is investigated. Unlike retarded FR foil hatters, every possibility is explored.

3) It is currently NOT POSSIBLE for NTSB to ever satisfy their idiot bashers. Let's review:

There are only three possibilites for NTSB in an investigation:

A) Do what they've done...speak to the press, discuss what they are looking at, and the possibilities, and take the risk that the theory of the crash changes. This becomes "floating theories" to the foil hatters, and is suspicious and sign of a coverup.

B)Treat the entire investigation as beyond Top Secret compartmentalized. No press conferences, no theories floated, not a peep for months, no "off the record" interviews. To the foil hatters that would be VERY suspicious and sign of a coverup.

C)With 1 or 2 days of the crash, RAPIDLY settle on ONE theory, go with that as the cause of the crash, and put the final crash report out 1 week after the crash. To the foil hatters that would be VERY VERY suspicious and a CLEAR sign of a coverup.

[archy]

...USS COLE =

...Failed attempt to ..'SINK THE COLE'.. the night before Candidate GORE was scheduled to lose his 2nd Consecutive Presidential Debate on National TV that was nearly cancelled by Host National League of Women Voters due to this Terrorist Attack

Maybe, Ron. But I think there was something else in the debates that the DNC and LWV didn't want discussed by the next morning's talking heads.

It certainly didn't do Gore any good with his hometown/home county voters when it was pointed out there.

-archy-/-

[copycat]

Thanks. Sorry. Read the thread backwards...

Posted three exceptional names at Post 73...

[John H K]

wow you are really brilliant. why didn't I think of that? thanks for your thoughtful help

Frankly, I'm surprised that someone who didn't even know that Richard Reid didn't have so much as a DROP of Arab blood in him is capable of even a feeble attempt at sarcasm such as this. Congratulations.

[copycat]

D) Make a political decision what the answer must be to save the US airline industry, and begin saying within hours of the crash that they are treating it as an accident...before the pieces are all even recovered.

(PS I do not fault them for this...America needed not to have another terrorist attack at this time. At this point, however, I think they could go ahead and admit the obvious without kiling air travel.

[John H K]

Ooooh, boy, those ARE suspicious...a Jew, an Armenian, and an Englishwoman who is possibly French.

[copycat]

Frankly, I'm surprised that someone who didn't even know that Richard Reid didn't have so much as a DROP of Arab blood in him is capable of even a feeble attempt at sarcasm such as this.

Richard Reid is al-Queda. He trained with al-Queda and belonged to a mosque in Great Britian.

[Lancey Howard]

If this hasn't crossed everyones mind at least once, you're not thinking.

Agreed.

One thing, though.
Is an "act of terror" truly an act of terror if the public never knows that it was an act of terror? Nobody ever claimed responsibility for downing 587. It has occurred to me that it may have been no accident that this "shoe bomber" was unable to light his fuse. Revelation of the existence of such a bizarre (and frightening) scheme as a "shoe bomber" may cause more "terror" than an "unexplained" crash.

[Pharmboy]

Can you point me to one piece of evidence showing blast?

OK, Mr. Smarty Pants ("It can't be a terrorist, just ask the gummint"). You want the TRUTH? You can't stand the truth...

This NTSB photo looks aft over the top side of the left rear fuselage. It shows the left center and left aft vertical stabilizer attachment points.

Note the lower center portion of the picture. It shows a gaping hole thru the fuselage where the aircraft's torn skin is bent upwards and outwards. This area, as well as the area immediately downwind of the gaping hole, is colored by dark residue. Can this be evidence of an in-flight explosion from inside the fuselage, near the left side of the vertical stabilizer?

12 posted on 1/7/02 11:34 AM Pacific by Chad