Study: Neanderthals, Modern Humans Same Species

USA Today ^ | 12-26-2001 | Michael A. Stowe

[Junior]

A 10-day, 16-thread bump.

2002

1. (2002-01-01) Conservatives, Darwin & Design: An Exchange

2. (2002-01-01) Design Yes, Intelligent No

3. (2002-01-01) Intelligent Design As a Theory of Technological Evolution

4. (2002-01-07) Genetic Marker Tells Squash Domestication Story

5. (2002-01-07) SNPs as Windows on Evolution

6. (2002-01-07) Supreme Court Won't Hear Case on Teaching Evolution

7. (2002-01-07) Universe Of Life: Maybe Not, A

8. (2002-01-07) What Every Theologian Should Know about Creation, Evolution, and Design

9. (2002-01-08) Democratization of Science, The

10. (2002-01-08) Progressive Creationism

11. (2002-01-08) Universe Might Last Forever, Astronomers Say, but Life Might Not, The

12. (2002-01-09) Life On Other Planets? Vatican Aide Ponders The Possibility

13. (2002-01-09) Primordial Air May Have Been "Breathable"

14. (2002-01-09) What Would Newton Do?

15. (2002-01-10) New Theory on Big Bang

16. (2002-01-10) Study: Neanderthals, Modern Humans Same Species

[Physicist]

If you can interbreed, you are considered in the same species.

Just this morning I read a claim in Arctic Dreams by Barry Lopez (highly recommended!) that polar bears and brown bears can in some cases produce viable offspring.

As for Neanderthals, the genetics suggest that they were separate species. Until the mitochondrial DNA data came in, they always were considered two varieties of homo sapiens. I don't see how comparative anatomy can trump that.

[oldsalt]

If you ever left a bar at closing time you would realize that there is no such thing as "unappealing female" to a homo sapien male.

I guess that explains why I can say that I've never gone to bed with an ugly woman.....but I sure woke up with a few!

[SevenDaysInMay]

Although totally un-PC, todays "race" is but biology's "sub-species". Differentiating race/location definitional parameters and infrequent cross-breeding between/among races/sub-species is often all biologists need to name a "new" sub-species.

I suspect that during the ebbs and flows of 7(?) ice sheets since Raquel Welch's One Million Years B.C., early tribes were forced out and likely back into Europe, perfecting the human warrior genes and social organizations during these many migrations. Breeding then as now was probably for alliance, wealth, and dominance, as it is now. Maybe Neanderthals were the original blonds.

What has love got to do with it?

[CholeraJoe]

If you can interbreed, you are considered in the same species.

Bison and domestic cattle can interbreed yet are not in the same species. Timberwolves and domestic dogs can interbreed - different species. Drake mallard ducks will attempt to breed with any female duck of any species - often successfully.

[denydenydeny]

They are trying to advance the theory that humans interbred with Neanderthals--and the word "DNA" does not even appear in the article!

Their entire research apparently consists of measuring skulls, which people laughed at the Nazis about.

[COB1]

When Oiler coach Bum Phillips was asked by Bob Costas why he took his wife on all road trips, Phillips responded:

"Because she was too damn ugly to kiss goodbye."

This is essentially what happened to the Neanderthals.
The men couldn't bear to kiss their wives good-by when they went on hunting forays, so they took them along.
Some sexually deprived Cro-Magnon males spotted them and used the grocery sacks they always carried to allow them to interbreed without regurgitating.

[Fury]

The real determining factor is can they bring the resultant fetus to term? Sheep and goats, although distinct species, can successfully breed, with there being fertilization and development of an embryo, but the embryo will not survive.

[Interesting Times]

Exactly. Has anyone done any archaeological research on turkey-basters?

**Humans have attempted to mate with ... watermelons.**

Indeed. How else to explain Marlon Brando?

You forgot interns.

I think they call this a 'target-rich environment'...

[Interesting Times]

Are you an Ichthyophobe? I noticed you left fish completely off the list. :o)

Phobe? No, I'm not afraid of fish -- I just find them somewhat Ichthy.

[Wm Bach]

I just find them somewhat Ichthy.

Not all of them! Sounds like you need to bone up on fish.

[ZULU]

The study you refer to compared DNA from Neaderthals to DNA from Modern Homo sapiens. Until they perform a similar study on DNA from Neaderthals and DNA from Archaic Homo sapiens, the jury is still out. Even the DNA of Homo sapiens can be expected to change over a time frame of thousands of millenia.

I think this entire issue has been clouded by politically correct scientists not wanting to imply that "modern" Homo sapiens from Eurasia did not directly originate from Africa. In actuality, BOTH Neanderthal man and Homo sapiens originated in Africa, so this is really a non-issue.

If mammologists were viewing the skeletal remains of populations of hogs, deer, or any other taxa of mammals other than hominids, the apparent differences between Homo sapiens sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis/H. s. neanderthalensis would hardly be considered adequate to separate the populations into two distinct species.

Take a Neanderthal, give him a bath and a shave, and put him in a business suit, and he wouldn't stand out in any major city on earth today.

[Norb2569]

Some sexually deprived Cro-Magnon males spotted them and used the grocery sacks they always carried to allow them to interbreed without regurgitating.

ROFLMAO!

[Francohio]

Yes,it's "Twins," all over again. This time with Danny DeVito's build, and and Arnold Schwarznegger's strength.

By Der Vay, looking at Arnolt's prominent brow ridge, I vant to know eggsactly how far is dat Neanderthal (what did happen to the "H") Walley from Austria, Dude?

[CholeraJoe]

See also post #25

Mallard-Pintail hybrid

Mallard-Spotbill hybrid

Mallard-Gadwall hybrid

[blam]

"Can anyone direct me to a good "Neanderthals for Dummies" or "Ancient Anthropology" site?"

A show, Neanderthals On Trial, will be on PBS the evening of 01-22-2002, don't know what time.

[blam]

You actually read the article about squash domestication?

[Junior]

I glanced at it and then added it to The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource. There have been a slew of crevo threads in the last week or so and I'm rushing to keep up with them all.

[HarryDunne]

thanks

[glorgau]

Whenever it is said that modern humans and Neanderthals didn't interbreed, I think "these are guys, they'll sleep with anything".

Witness the "most intelligent president we've ever had"