Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New Theory Suggests Start of Universe
AP via Yahoo! ^ | January 8, 2002 | Paul Recer

Posted on 01/09/2002 5:24:37 AM PST by Darth Reagan

WASHINGTON (AP) - A half billion years of utter blackness following the Big Bang, the theoretical start of the universe, was broken by an explosion of stars bursting into life like a fireworks finale across the heavens, a new theory suggests.

An analysis of very faint galaxies in the deepest view of the universe ever captured by a telescope suggests there was an eruption of stars bursting to life and piercing the blackness very early in the 15-billion year history of the universe.

The study, by Kenneth M. Lanzetta of the State University of New York at Stony Brook challenges the long held belief that star formation started slowly after the Big Bang and didn't peak until some five billion years later.

``Star formation took place early and very rapidly,'' Lanzetta said Tuesday at a NASA (news - web sites) news conference. ``Star formation was ten times higher in the distant early universe than it is today.''

Lanzetta's conclusions are based on an analysis of what is called a deep field study by the Hubble Space Telescope (news - web sites). To capture the faintest and most distant images possible, the Hubble focused on an ordinary bit of sky for more than 14 days, taking a picture of every object within a small, deep slice of the heavens. The resulting images are faint, fuzzy bits of light from galaxies near and far, including some more than 14 billion light years away, said Lanzetta.

The surprise was that the farther back the telescope looked, the greater was the star forming activity.

``Star formation continued to increase to the very earliest point that we could see,'' said Lanzetta. ``We are seeing close to the first burst of star formation.''

Bruce Margon of the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore said Lanzetta's conclusions are a ``surprising result'' that will need to be confirmed by other studies.

``This suggests that the great burst of star formation was at the beginning of the universe,'' said Margon, noting that, in effect: ``The finale came first.''

``If this can be verified, it will dramatically change our understanding of the universe,'' said Anne Kinney, director of the astronomy and physics division at NASA.

In his study, Lanzetta examined light captured in the Hubble deep field images using up to 12 different light filters to separate the colors. The intensity of red was used to establish the distance to each point of light. The distances were then used to create a three-dimensional perspective of the 5,000 galaxies in the Hubble picture.

Lanzetta also used images of nearby star fields as a yardstick for stellar density and intensity to conclude that about 90 percent of the light in the very early universe was not detected by the Hubble. When this missing light was factored into the three dimensional perspective, it showed that the peak of star formation came just 500 million years after the Big Bang and has been declining since.

Current star formation, he said, ``is just a trickle'' of that early burst of stellar birth.

Lisa Storrie-Lombardi, a California Institute of Technology astronomer, said that the colors of the galaxies in the Hubble deep field images ``are a very good indication of their distance.''

Current theory suggests that about 15 billion years ago, an infinitely dense single point exploded - the Big Bang - creating space, time, matter and extreme heat. As the universe cooled, light elements, such as hydrogen and helium, formed. Later, some of areas became more dense with elements than others, forming gravitational centers that attracted more and more matter. Eventually, formed celestial bodies became dense enough to start nuclear fires, setting the heavens aglow. These were newborn stars.

Storrie-Lombardi said that current instruments and space telescopes now being planned could eventually, perhaps, see into the Dark Era, the time before there were stars.

``We are getting close to the epoch were we can not see at all,'' she said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevolist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 161 next last
To: callisto
I personally suspect Dr. Manuel's going to get pelted with rocks. You'd think we'd have noticed by now if the Sun had more iron than it does hydrogen. Also, you'd expect a supernova remnant to be something dense like a neutron star or a black hole. There are supposedly lots of sunlike stars out there. In other words, he seems to be following one particular line of evidence with blinders on: xenon and helium isotope mixes in space objects.
61 posted on 01/09/2002 8:31:40 AM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
He seems to have made this theory his "life's work" for the last several decades. I do find the data about the strange xenon interesting though, but the minimal info I've read hasn't convinced me that he's correct. There is SO MUCH new data pouring in from all sorts of related fields that apply to the cosmology that it will probably take years to process and even begin to get a true picture of the universe, if we can find it.
62 posted on 01/09/2002 8:39:00 AM PST by callisto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
You can't, for the same reason that you can't tell the difference between acceleration due to gravity when you're sitting in a chair at home, and acceleration from a rocket, when you're sitting in the pilot's seat. This is known as the "equivalence principle", and there are different formulations of it. It's a big topic.

This is what bothers me. If they are equivalent, then how can we say the expansion of the universe is due to space expanding and not movement within space, unless we can distinguish between the two?

63 posted on 01/09/2002 8:41:49 AM PST by Pres Raygun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Pres Raygun
General relativity: a brief explanation of the fundamentals ideas
64 posted on 01/09/2002 8:42:44 AM PST by callisto
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: VRWC_minion
Didn't God say, "Lighten UP"?? My favorite bumper sticker: "the Big Bang Theory: God said bang,and it happened."
65 posted on 01/09/2002 8:46:28 AM PST by fish hawk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: callisto
He seems to have made this theory his "life's work" for the last several decades.

I can't tell what if anything is wrong with the logic that leads him to infer what he does from the "strange xenon" type evidence. But nowhere does the article address the broader evidence picture, which I think strongly weighs against his idea. I seem to recall our sun is thought to be a garden-variety main-sequence star. I'm left to wonder how Dr. Manuel explains that.

66 posted on 01/09/2002 8:49:40 AM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro;callisto
I personally suspect Dr. Manuel's going to get pelted with rocks. You'd think we'd have noticed by now if the Sun had more iron than it does hydrogen. Also, you'd expect a supernova remnant to be something dense like a neutron star or a black hole. There are supposedly lots of sunlike stars out there. In other words, he seems to be following one particular line of evidence with blinders on: xenon and helium isotope mixes in space objects.

The big question that I don't see answered is one of time frames. There are about 10 or so supernova remnants within a kiloparsec. Why don't we see star formation around them? Most supernova remnants show large voids about the central radio source (where there is one). How long does it take for this to occur? Unfortunately, the article is not very clear about it. His web page is not much help either. Sadly, it reads like some of the letters that we occasionally receive from various people with some very strange ideas, and very poor grammar.

67 posted on 01/09/2002 8:57:05 AM PST by ThinkPlease
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: Pres Raygun
Because, first of all, the universe is the same in every direction we look (which tells us that if the universe exploded outward from a central point into empty space we'd have to have ended up extremely close to the center of the matter distribution), and second of all, because of the cosmic microwave background radiation (which tells us that the universe was dense to the point of opacity in the distant past, in any direction we can look).
68 posted on 01/09/2002 9:00:52 AM PST by Physicist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: callisto
The more I think about Dr. Manuel's theory, the crazier it seems. Even if surface conditions can completely mask the spectroscopic signature of iron, an iron sun is more massive than a hydrogen sun.

We've known the mass of the earth since before 1800, when Cavendish measured the strength of the gravitational force. From the mass of the earth, its orbit around the sun, and Newton's Law of Gravitation, we know the mass of the sun. If you somehow make the sun more massive, then it takes more velocity for the earth to maintain a stable orbit at its current distance.

Which only brings me back to the point that I'd expect someone to have noticed by now if the sun had more iron and more density than we think. Are we going too fast for the current model of the sun's composition but nobody's noticed?

69 posted on 01/09/2002 9:05:45 AM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: ScreamingFist
Interesting thread...
70 posted on 01/09/2002 9:16:51 AM PST by freefly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Pres Raygun
This is what bothers me. If they are equivalent, then how can we say the expansion of the universe is due to space expanding and not movement within space, unless we can distinguish between the two?

Depends on the distances you want to talk about. Luckily, the expansion of the universe is nearly immeasurable at close distances, so you can throw it out for most measurements, like measuring velocities within the galaxy. But once you get outside what is assumed to be the galactic halo (about 300 kilopasecs, or about 1200000 light years), then you have to factor it out. Luckily, the expansion of the universe has been occurring nearly linearly in recent times, so you can just measure the velocity, and since the Hubble velocity of expansion is generally larger than the velocity of motion through space, you can fit that distance with other distance estimates, like Cepheids, Type I supernovae, and other methods. Whatever is left over is a good estimate of the space velocity of the source along the line of sight.

There are other caveats, but that should give you a good idea of how it is done.

71 posted on 01/09/2002 9:17:52 AM PST by ThinkPlease
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: elfman2
"The Freeper known as "Physicist" likes to post that there is no "before" the Big Bang any more than there is a point North of the North Pole. Time itself starts at the BB."

I think my question wasn't complete. If there was no "before", then what are the leading non-religious based hypotheses as to how it began?


AFAIK, there aren't any.

ven if the laws of the universe were different, it's still "something from nothing". There appears to be no way around that. (Kind of like the "God just was" explanation.)

If the laws of the universe were different (the best that can be stated from current knowledge is that known laws break down), then we can't hypothesize without knowing what these different rules are. Perhaps it was "something from nothing", or perhaps it was something else that we cannot observe and thus cannot explain.

If there are no good explanations, the Big Bang theory's not very satisfying. It only defers the question and pushes what we don't know back to an earlier point.

The "Big Bang" is just an explanation for the origins for the universe. It isn't supposed to address a cause, at least not in the current form of the theory. When you can come up with a hypothesis based upon physical evidence and observation and testing thereof, and when that hypothesis is sound and stands up to vigourous testing and peer-review then we might have a more satisfying explanation and you can collect a neat Nobel Prize. Until then the only non-religious answer is "Not enough information". It does not mean that there cannot be a naturalistic explanation, it only means that we don't have enough knowledge to formulate an explanation at the time. You may not think that it is "satisfying", but science is in the business of explaining natural phenomenon in terms of natural causes; it isn't supposed to make things up when it runs out of reasons.
72 posted on 01/09/2002 9:40:15 AM PST by Dimensio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
I understand your answer, and thank you for same, but I respectfully disagree. To me, it is difficult a transition from a singularity to a non-singularity that is not completely uniform, UNLESS there is manipulation of the system, externally or internally. Implicit in my skepticism, I suppose, is the question begged: What would CAUSE a singularity to change state, and whatever the explanation could be, HOW would it, as the "first cause," influence the transition? This is not intended to suggest a deliberate "design," but rather simply the need for some "force" to cause the transition from a singularity to be something other than uniform. I still cannot fathom how a singularity that somehow "explodes" does so in anything other than a completely uniform, concentric "shape." If, at some later point in time, the matter is affected by gravity, effect of sound waves, or other "shaping" influences, how can it transform from anything other than concentric in shape? Unless there are other unaccounted for forces affecting the post-Big Bang explosion that are themselves not uniform in existence. I appreciate your answer, though. Do you have any comments about my comments? This is fascinating stuff, isn't it?
73 posted on 01/09/2002 11:13:21 AM PST by JoJo the Clown
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Physicist
Now, when you're playing the game [Asteroids], where is the doughnut? In what space does the doughnut exist?

Why, nowhere but in the mind of the Person who Created the doughnut in the first place...

"Donuts. Is there anything they can't do?" -- Homer Simpson

74 posted on 01/09/2002 11:24:46 AM PST by B-Chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Darth Reagan
``We are getting close to the epoch were we can not see at all,'' she said.

When that happens, I want pictures!

Shalom.

75 posted on 01/09/2002 11:30:24 AM PST by ArGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: College Repub
Science and religion go hand in hand.

Since human beings can mis-use either (which might make your point - hmmm) I prefer to say, "All Truth is G-d's Truth."

Shalom.

76 posted on 01/09/2002 11:33:10 AM PST by ArGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: VRWC_minion
Theologically speaking, I believe the first light was not the light of the sun but rather the light of Jesus.

The Rabbis used to teach it was the light of Messiah. I believe it is what we call "Shekinah." In any event, the very next thing G-d did was separate the light from the darkness. IMO: the separated dark place is hell.

Shalom.

77 posted on 01/09/2002 11:40:46 AM PST by ArGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: fish hawk
Didn't God say, "Lighten UP"??

I think that was Cheech and Chong.

78 posted on 01/09/2002 11:56:17 AM PST by VRWC_minion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: ArGee
IMO: the separated dark place is hell

I agree. I always think of evil as being the absence of God's light.

79 posted on 01/09/2002 11:59:58 AM PST by VRWC_minion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: VRWC_minion
Please take a peak here and let me know what you think.

Shalom.

80 posted on 01/09/2002 12:24:01 PM PST by ArGee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 161 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson