Poutine
Posted on 01/07/2002 3:00:55 PM PST by RicocheT
Computer simulation aims to raise questions about huge stockpiles of nuclear warheads.
A new computer program developed for nuclear weapons researchers in the U.S. probably won't give Canadians much of a sense of security in these days of global tension and uncertainty. The software simulated the destruction of Canada with as few as 11 nuclear warheads.
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As someone who has worked with Canadians and am friends with countless numbers of them, let me be the first to say this. Your sense of humor regarding the situation is far less than those of our northern neighbors. They are good natured folk, (the most of them). Who openly mock their rediculously liberal government and would love to see the blight of Quebec removed from their midsts. I just spent the last year working in a company that had more canadians than americans and everyone of them tell the exact same story. Its our country, we love it, but we understand its place in the world.
Most Candians I have met are some of the greatest salt of the earth types you can meet, they recognize the sheer stupidity of requiring bilingual road signs in the western provinces, of the huge financial sucking sound that needless and stupid regulations and policies of their government have imposed on them... and the prohibitive effects it has had on true growth in their nation. They all know that to make it, truly make it that most all talent comes down south of the border the minute the opportunity arrises, because quite frankly the opportunities are not in their home country that exist here. They all intend to return home one day, and enjoy the US.
They jokingly mock our cavelier attitudes and conspicuous consumerism, and other aspects of american culture that are all true... our failing schools, jerry springer, and the whole lot. And I agreed and have laughed heartily with them, just as they have agreed and laughed heartily with myself and others as we discuss their navy, with 3 submarines, and their most popular TV show that attracts about the same number of views a week as the XFL managed. You want to meet a person with a sense of humor, go talk to some of the guys who have done time on the oil rigs up in the territories...
I have nothign against the Canada or Canadians, and if you think my comments are bashing, you have no idea what bashing is. We are the worlds superpower, and they are our neighbor.. a relatively good neighbor, though their immigration policies put all of the US at risk especially at present. As their own Prime Minister has said, being the neighbor the US is like sleeping with an elephant, every move we make no matter how small has vast effect upon them. They know it, we know, and we are all better neighbors and friends to laugh together about the sheer absurdity of it all.
Personally, I think if Canada gets rid of Quebec, truly gets rid of it, let it become its own nation, with no subsidies, and nothing, just cut it lose, you would see the rest of Canada lose a millstone that has plagued it for much of the last 30-40 years. Nothing against Quebecer's, you have some lovely cities, but the policies and ideas out of Montreal have about as much relevance on the rest of the nation, as San Francisco's do on the rest of the US.
I have lived in Canada and found them to be a deeply pragmatic bunch. Aside from how they pay for their health care, they are no more "socialist" than we are. They live in an entrepreneurial society very similar to our own (except for this dreadful food-stuff called “poutine”). As far as Quebec is concerned, the threat of separatism has diminished significantly over the years and Canadians elected their current fiscally conservative government, in overwhelming numbers, within the last year.
Like the Brit I met, I am astonished at people who form a deeply held opinion about a subject without the relevant information required to adequately develop that opinion.
Had a treaty not been signed by that date, I submit that that victory would have insured that the British would have relented anyway.
Like I said, we lost the war. We also lost in Vietnam. And Bill Clinton got impeached. Reagan Won the Cold War. Thus endeth the class in America History 565, What the History Textbooks Don't Like to Talk About.
Hey, watch it! I go fishin' there every year. Even in Texas you don't have any fresh-water fish to compare to a Nothern Pike.
Incidentally, America LOST the War of 1812. Had England opted to go for it, they could have reclaimed her former colonies, but they were rather more worried about that Bonaparte chap.
While many of your claims regarding objectives are true, I challenge strongly the assertion that England could have reclaimed the "colonies" if she had a mind. The victory in New Orleans, had it occurred before the treaty, would have certainly led to more favorable peace terms.
As it was, the fight was more or less a draw. While it is true we did not defeat the English Navy on the high seas in ernest, several victories (Constitution, UNited States, and Hornet) were important. Even more so, the defeat of Barclay on Lake Erie by Perry was significant and a shock to the British (Perry's quote will ring through history, "We have me the enemy and they are ours"), and the defeat of the British fleet on Lake Chaplain by Macdonough at Plattsburg Bay stopped the invasion of the U.S. in progress by Provost (which was essentially a repeat of the Revoultionary War effort to split the nation which also failed). All in all we did enough damage and made enough of a name for ourselves from a naval perspective to have the English want to put an end to it through negotiation, particularly given their other involvement and despite the success of their blockade.
They did invade and burn Washington, but they were rejected and ultimately defeated on the ground, near Moraviantown in Canada when Harrison beat the indian conferdration and the English General Proctor, by Scott at Chippewa and by Jackson at New Orleans.
So, though many of the strategic issues you speak of are true, I believe I would not count the War of 1812 as a victory for the British. Once engaged they intended to invade and defeat us and they tried to do just that. But they were defeated on the ground and suffered on the sea, particularly inland. And I believe had New Orleans occurred before the treaty, that the terms would have been more heavily weighted to the U.S as opposed to the "draw" it essentially turned out to be.
So, while I believe many of your points are accurate and correct in terms of the strategic situation, I still take issue with the notion that the English could have even come close to "reclaiming" he foremer colonies in the least. That was the essential point of my post.
Absent hip-deep involvement in the Napoleonic Wars, Britain would have had the resources available to commit FAR more troops and brown-water naval forces to North America, both British forces and continental mercenary units. As it was, the War of 1812 was not one of America's more glorious moments--and it was bad enough that it could be described (loosely) as a war of national survival for America. Had it been on London's front burner, it would have turned into a REAL war of national survival, with a high chance of unfavorable outcome.
There's a precautionary tale in the War of 1812 for statesmen everywhere: if you're going to deliberately start a war, make sure you can win it. But in a nation with as messianic a teleology as we have, serious introspection and study of history is not ever going to happen--especially when you consider the fact that the war was started by the DemocRATS.
WRT:
But in a nation with as messianic a teleology as we have, serious introspection and study of history is not ever going to happen--especially when you consider the fact that the war was started by the DemocRATSI aree. This was one of the contributing reasons for my writing of my book, Dragon's Fury - Breath of Fire.
Had Boney's luck broken in the opposite direction during the previous decade (as it damn near did), there would have been two things going in favor of England: (a) no significant threat to its national interests in Europe (France would be a broken nation, and the concept of the nation-in-arms probably would have died with her), which would let them throw more effort into the mix; and (b) a lot of unemployed soldiers ready for service as mercenaries.
When Wellington's soldiers got hired for duty in the various wars of independence in Central and South America, they didn't do so out of a profound love for liberty--but they sure as hell changed the face of the Americas, for good or for bad.
Again, this also supposes that England would have WANTED America back.
Like I say, the War of 1812 almost turned into a war for national survival. With a lot more British resources (troops, ships, supplies, and money) available for commitment to America, and the concept of the "nation-in-arms" having proven its apparent non-utility, America might have fallen--or at least been severely truncated. (One potential strategy: the British ignore most of New England and the Canadian border, and instead seize the Maine and the Carolina seaboard--specifically to grab the stands of white fir and live oak, and thus cripple American shipbuilding for a couple of generations, until iron hulls begin to appear.)
Another fascinating what-if: Boney gets a sense of when to quit pushing his luck in 1806 or so. Meanwhile, the American War Hawks put together a sensible military program during the 1804-1811 timeframe. With Europe secure under French rule, and America's full military potential in place, particularly at sea, there existed every possibility that America and France might team up to rid the world of "Perfidious Albion" once and for all. So there's a LOT of potential counterfactuals that could have been in play during that time.
BTW, I think your novel's scenario is a little to pedestrian. My guess: China is going to be the first nuclear-armed nation to fight a full-blown civil war--and that might pose a greater threat to American interests than anything China might be interested in doing to us or anybody else.
LOL, I was just sitting here wondering if Moose Jaw would make the cut!
My Dad built a large commercial building there, back in the 60s. He sent pictures home every week, but he always looked like 'Kenny' in a green parka. He still refers to it as the 'worst winter of my life'.
They built plastic enclosures around all the forms for the foundation, so they could cure the concrete using gas heaters.
There are several things that could lead to a civil war in China ... going too far against us may be one of them. Nothing says it can't occur while they are in the midst of an external fight ... particularly once fortunes turn.
Anyhow, the novel is fiction and those who have purchased and completed it are saying good things. I'll be happy if that continues.
Please tell me more about this...if you have the time
Thanks
W1
Their entry into the WTO was, IMNHO, the beginning of the end.
Come on, now. There are more than 11 Breweries in Canada.
; )
The fun part comes in when you consider that the various elites of these incipient countries all hold different portfolios in the government. The big one is "Shang-Kong," as I call it--they basically take one look at the rest of China and says, "Why in Confucius's name are we subsidizing all of these losers?" The agrarian nations don't like the tax collectors, who tend to be from Manchuria, and Manchuria doesn't want any change that might upset their social order (translation: they want to retain their 1950s-vintage industrial plant). The Islamists are causing hate and discontent in the Western provinces, where Muslims are a majority.
Sooner, rather than later, all hell is going to break loose. And when that happens, you're going to see warlords start running things...only they'll have nukes.
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