Pilot at fault used Profiling against SS Agent

CNN - Crossfire Transscript 1/4/2 ^ | 1/4/02 | Self

[ImphClinton]

Here's one from Karen who's from upstate, New York. Big territory. "Bill, I almost always agree with you, but you are really wrong on this one. The pilot did exactly the right thing. And anyone who believes a government ID cannot be forged is living in a fantasy."

[mewzilla]

I'm beginning to wonder if the agent wanted to instigate an incident, because he certainly went about it the right way. That's not to let AA off the hook for not calling the USSS. What a mess. I still would like to know where the agent was stopped, and how early he arrived for his flight.

[Howlin]

I imagine we'll hear it all in due time; but I tell you one thing, having his lawyers all over TV the other night did NOT impress me at all. It has that "Gary Condit" feel to me.

[Dave S]

This agent has delusions of grandeur. He said, when he got belligerent, that he had the power of the president. Since when? He was also unable to fill out simple forms properly, and as such should be fired from the president's BG force.

So says American Airlines, the largest recipient in history of corporate welfare. You have strange bedfellows.

[mewzilla]

See my earlier reply about the G-U-N. Personally, I wouldn't have given a rat's patootie about the man's ethnicity. Just the fact that the guy was carrying would have put me on red alert.

And, BTW, the best argument against profiling (especially in the long-run) is what happens if the terrorists start recruiting more Jihad Johnnies, or using people who don't fit the profile. That's why the G-U-N is the BIG deal.

To my mind, that makes checking the agent out a no-brainer. Both the agent and AA should have realised this.

[mewzilla]

I mentioned on athother thread that I found it interesting that the agent lawyered up with the lawyer he did, John Reland or something like that, was one of the three legal eagles. I do recall that this that particular lawyer has done big discrimination cases before. Wonder who called whom?

[browardchad]

He didnt leave the plane when asked to do so while they checked his ID?

This, and your other arguments all seem to be based on the agent's attorney's statement. Please read the Pilot's original report of the incident:

Secret Service Agent Kicked off Flight – Pilot’s Version

Note that the pilot says the agent left the plane BEFORE the incident began; in fact, it was his absence that triggered suspicion. Who among us has been allowed to leave a plane after boarding? If he did leave the plane, why? Was it to call CAIR (out of earshot of witnesses) to tell them that "Operation Discrimination" was about to begin?

You can believe who you want to believe, but at least consider both sides of the story.

[Dave S]

The angry Arab SS agent was apparently reading an anti-Christian book for Muslims. Seems to me this guy has an agenda, and so do you.

The Agent was reading a college level textbook on the history of the arab world. There is nothing anti-Christian about it although you maybe somewhat anti-Christian in your attitudes and behavior.

Maybe you are not aware that the agent in question was, up until a week or so before the flight, assigned to a FBI Counter-Terrorism Unit for three months where he receievd commendations for his work in helping to investigate and detain potential terrorists. It is quite conceivable to me that he was reading that book as background on Arabic history and culture so he could better understand the enemy. If you think your average Arab thinks like your average German you would be sadly mistaken. To be informed is to be prepared.

[Dave S]

I would expect the SS agent to be a complete professional and not a hot head.

And so far you have the Pilots word that he wasnt. The same pilot that was either too stupid or too lazy to call the White House (20 miles away)to determine if the agent was who he said he was. And was negligent if he believed the agent to be an terrorist in not having him arrested so he wouldnt attempt to board another flight.

[Dave S]

Did I hurt your idty-bitty feelings?

No I was laughing at you and poking fun at your arrogance. Why would anything you say hurt my feelings?

[DeckTheHallsHolly]

What good would calling have done. Yes, an agent could have been scheduled to flight. But how could a phone call help ID a person. A terrorist could have assumed the agent's idenity. If the guy could not fill out the paperwork right three times and had an attitude problem (could have been pissed that infidels were keeping him from doing Allah's business) who is to say he was the real agent. The real agent could have been locked up dead in the trunk of a car. Without a face to face ID by someone who knew the agent a phone call would be useless. Yes the agent did turn out to who he said he was he also appears to be a jerk with a gun too.

[Dave S]

Airline pilots don't maigically dial the White House swtichboard and get a direct line to them for a problem dealing with passengers--no matter if they are agents or not.

If I can dial the White House and get through, why cant a pilot who is concerned with the ID being presented to him. Why the fixation on the American Airlines form. It had no releveance to whether he was or was not an agent. Just so the records after the flight were in order.

[sandlady]

Pilots (Captains) have specific instructions about how to handle incorrect/incomplete paperwork concerning gun-carrying passengers. The pilot followed procedure.

[Dave S]

Even before 9/11 pilots did not have to allow LEOs to fly with their weapons. Quite often the stewardess would give it to the captain or have it put in checked baggage. Sounds to me that this agent picked up an attitude during the Clintoon years.

Where did you see it written that he made a deal out of not surrendering his weapon. There is nothing even in the American Airlines report that he was asked much less refused to surrender the gun. 75 minutes on the ground and the pilot doesnt bother to check the identity of an armed agent on his flight. And you think the Agent has an attitude. I would say the pilot has a whopper.

[Dave S]

I believe he is a Clinton appointee.

What rock did you climb out from under. You dont appoint people to the Secret Service. Duh?

[Dave S]

And why is this guy guarding the President? Shouldn't he be assigned to Bill Clinton duty anyway? That way he can feel more comfortable with the philosophy and conduct of the person he is guarding. Everybody wins that way.

And what do you know about this agent and his philosopyy? I can garner more from Cultural Jihad's screen name and comments. He should be guarding his brother Mullah Omar since they both share the Taiban philosophy.

[Dave S]

why is it so hard for people to understand that the pilot has the right and the responsibility to deny anyone on board he does not feel secure with?

Then why is it so hard for the pilot and American Airlines to just admit that he doent feel secure flying with arabs on board? American seems to be goign out of their way to say that no profiling was occuring. The Manager 1000 miles away didnt even know that a guy claiming to be Wallid Shattner might be middle eastern in appearance, especially after the pilot requested all the pictures American had of known terrorists. Sure he didnt have a clue...

[baltoga]

This Agent smells like a poster child for the ACLU. Certainly a Secret Service agent would understand the need for increased security. Why he's making an issue I don't know, but I doubt it's because of discrimination. I suspect he probably had a fair to poor job rating and he's using this case to save his ass.