America First: Why we need to examine our insane Foreign policy

I am not an America hater by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are the plethora of folks calling for a re-examination of our foreign policies. But that's what we're called.

I really don't want to be against any American. I don't like being on the butt end of insults. So if there were a way to somehow explain what it is that bothers me about our foreign policy without the resultant cries of "traitor! treason! Islam firster!" I would.

One of the main problems apears to be that any "agreement" with bin Laden and his band of murdering thugs is seen to be support. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is probably true that bin Laden knows that water is tantamount to life in the desert. If I agree with this, I am no more supporting bin Laden than you are by agreeing.

When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.

This is puzzling to me. There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews, but for certain they are not perfect. For some, Israel is perfection and any criticism is tantamount to racism. Those who disagree are shouted down with such fervor it makes one pause.

American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's. Movie locations happened to be in the area where tests occurred. Many film industry professionals who worked on movies filmed in Nevada died from cancer including that great American we called "the Duke."

Why is it an indictment on all of America to bring such mistakes to light? In general, the American population has no say so in the slightest regarding these sorts of activities nor do they have much say in our foreign policy.

But as usual, it is the American population that has to accept the consequences of Policy mistakes made by the government. To say that those who object to this "hate America" is completely absurd.

I love America. And those who decry our foreign policy blunders and the theft of our hard earned money that is necessary in order to carry out these blunders also love America. We're simply tired of having to pay the price for those mistakes, while those who carry them out never have to suffer the consequences.

One of the most bizarre claims by those who are calling us "America haters" and "Islam firsters" is that terorrists are simply angry that we are so democratic as a nation and love freedom. These terrorists "hate freedom" and thus hate America and Americans. They're "jealous," in other words, of our prosperity.

This is about as brilliant an analysis as claiming that Timothy McVeigh was upset that he was no longer an employee of the federal government and thus took out his jealosy and rage on that same federal government.

The fact is, we only know what the terrorists claim. Not that it matters much. The opinions of mass murderers are not that important. Clearly however, this is not what any of the terrorists are saying. What they are saying is that they believe themselves to be oppressed by our foreign intervention.

When students took Iranian embassy employees hostage, their reason given for such extraordinary measures was American meddling in Iranian internal affairs.

The Shah of Iran was our personally hand-picked leader for their country. The CIA had, in the time period between the time we basically annexed Iran during WWII, purposefully destroyed opposition to the Shah by using tactics they had learned in South America.

None of those tactics were even remotely related to "freedom" or the principles upon which this nation was founded. They were the actions of a government that believed the Iranian people were chattle and were not worthy of chosing their own leadership.

So what happened? A number of Americans paid the price for our meddling. When we allowed the Shah to enter America to receive medical treatment, the last straw was put upon the back of that proverbial camel.

And that is not to mention the American lives that were sacrificed in a botched rescue attempt. For some, these lives are expendable. They are the price a nation pays for being a "super power." I agree with that assesment. But I don't think we need to be a superpower. I don't think we need to meddle in the affairs of other nations in order to protect our borders.

And therein lies the rub. Dying in order to defend this nation from an attacking force is national defense and is noble. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.

If that is the measure of value for an American life then you can call me an America hater all day long and I will be proud to wear that badge.

I criticize our foreign policies because they result in the deaths of American soldiers and citizens at home and abroad. In no way do I criticize Americans. In the aftermath of the Trade Center attacks, it wasn't the government that responded with such ferocity and bravery. It was the average American.

The Beaurocrats were busy playing CYA and letting us know that none of this was their fault. In the meantime, Americans came up with over 60 million dollars in cash and even more in valuable resources in spite of the fact that they are taxed to the extreme in order to pay for the very policies that helped to incubate the attacks of 9/11.

America proved it's greatness in the response to the attacks. The government proved it's complete disregard for human liberty by passing laws which violate the spirit and letter of the Supreme law of the land. Even while the fires were still burning.

America is a great nation and is full of great people. Unfortunately its leaders have no respect for its people or its laws. Pointing this out is not showing hate for anything but the lawbreakers who do so.

"Socialists frequently tell us to trust our leaders..."
- exodus
*******************

To: exodus
"Backwards.
Socialists hate this administration."
# 515 by Roscoe
************************

That's not true.
Bernie Sanders fully supports Bush's policies.

Funny. You consider it brilliant when somebody accuses others of "accidental" anti-Semitism.

"You were an anti-Semite but didn't know it."

I don't know what anti-Zionist is frankly and do not care. You and Roscoe should have a great carreer with Rainbow Push though. You're both naturals.

Everything reverts back to Israel with you doesn't it? How do you feel about having money jerked out of your pocket to send foreign aid to Egypt and Saudi Arabia?

No everything does not revert to Israel for me. In general I like the system of govt. we have particularly under GWB, and I did so with Reagan. I am not an isolationist and think the USA should have a presence around the world. I think we should support democracies, we NEED allies, and of course we need oil. IF we would drill for more HERE that would be much better.

I do not think Egypt and Saudi Arabia have been good friends and both countries looked the other way as terrorism flourished in their countries. Their attitude was just don't kill us. We need to look at that.

There is foreign aid I do not agree with - paying for abortions in other countries for instance - but GWB put a stop to that. I think Israel is a solid ally and we should nuture that relationship. BUT if aid stopped tomorrow I feel confident Israel would do fine. We get as much as we give though to Israel, on many levels.

When asked whether the United States should continue to support Israel, nearly three-fourths (73%) of Americans said yes, 15% said no, and 12% were either undecided or refused to answer.

Please tell me, where in American law and jurisprudence it is stated that America is to be guided by polling numbers rather than the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the rule of law?

The Shah of Iran was a brutal dictator who terrorized his own people. The answer to your question is "no." The United States government should not force its citizens to fund and support dictatorships around the world. Many people have suffered greatly under dictatorships that our government created and protected. Is it any wonder we've made enemies?

We have no business involving ourselves in the affairs of Iran or any other country for that matter. If we had kept our nose out of the Palestinian business, the Trade Towers would still be standing. We've made many enemies in the Muslim world and now we're reaping the consequences of our arrogant, bullying foreign policy. Bush's ill-advised bombing campaign (which, according to documented evidence, has killed more than 3,700 innocent Afghan civilians) will only make matters worse.

I know you and other America-right-or-wrong types don't want to hear this, but what our president has done in Afghanistan is more than a disgrace; it's criminal. If there were any justice in the world, he and Rumsfeld would be hauled before a war crimes tribunal.

Bush's belligerent and shortsighted policies have increased, not decreased, the exposure of U.S. citizens to terrorist attacks. Every innocent victim of U.S. bombs creates more anti-American sentiments, spawining more terrorists who will willingly die to destroy the "Great Satan."

Bush's blundering, sledgehammer foreign policy is endangering me and my loved ones, and I'm not happy about it.

American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's.

I am still trying to understand your motivations, especially when I see statements like this one. John Wayne let a hard life of drinking and smoking his brains out. Is it arguable that he somehow picked up enough radiation on his film sets to get lung cancer? Well yes it is, just as it is arguable that we did not land a man on the moon. But the "argument" is not sound given the preponderance of evidence against both theories. ANY question can be argued no matter how flimsy the argument is. Your post and many from antiwar.com remind me of the various paranormal programs on television. They all give passing recognition of the scientific basis for certain phenomena but end with a wink and then ask the viewer, "OR was flight 23 actually abducted by aliens?". I guess real life is just not satisfying for some folks.

There is nothing about forcing people to contribute charity.

You have to pay taxes and the politicians you elect get to do what they think is appropriate with that money. Apparently they feel Israel is a worthy recipient. Course you can always refuse to pay taxes, live in a cabin in the woods, or go to jail in protest.

Your post and many from antiwar.com remind me of the various paranormal programs on television.

Exactly.

I will say however, that an unusual number of people that were filming near those tests got cancer. No absolute proof of anything - but were we to not create the bomb?

Let Hitler get it first? I don't think so.

How you feel about where our foreign aid goes is not important. GW and the next administration doesn't care what you think. They will take your money and send it anywhere they want and if you don't like this and object to giving them the funds, they'll have you arrested and jailed.

You might be perfectly happy with money going to Israel. Were you happy when the Bush administration sent 43 million to the Taliban in June? And how happy will you be when they send that much or more to the new regime after we declare our job "complete" in Afghanistan?

GW won't be President forever. So what you think is cool now will be your whine next administration unless you can figure out a way to permanently install a President to your liking forever amen.

The immorality is not in sending money to Jews or Arabs, Africans or Europeans. The sin is in the theft. If you want to send money to Israel of your own volition that should be your right. More power to you. And you can be fulfilled knowing that you actually chose to support them and made a difference with your efforts. That's exactly what life is about. Pursuing those things that float your boat.

But do not demand that others jump in the boat with you and pay for the fuel. That's immoral.

I think we should support democracies

Which can be done through open and fair trade.

paying for abortions in other countries for instance

But its okay to demand that taxpayers who are repulsed at the idea of abortion to pay for them here?

IF we would drill for more HERE that would be much better.

OMG, we actually agree on something.

Bernie Sanders fully supports Bush's policies.

Tell me another one.

House passes anti-terror bill
By Jesse J. Holland
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON -- The House on Friday quickly approved anti-terrorist legislation pushed by the Senate and White House to increase the government's power to spy on, detain and punish suspected terrorists.
Before passage, however, the House insisted on changing the Senate package to put a five-year expiration deadline on the most intrusive of the new measures, including roving wiretaps, because of misgivings about civil liberties. It also dumped a Senate money-laundering provision, which is moving separately through the House.
House Judiciary Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said he hoped the Senate would accept the House changes and send the bill to President Bush.
Bush was pleased with the House passage, on a 337-79 vote. Rep. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., voted against the measure.

Course you can always refuse to pay taxes, live in a cabin in the woods, or go to jail in protest.

Or learn the law and fight based on your understanding. Not that you need to live in a cabin to learn.

What do you have against cabins and the woods?

Is it arguable that he somehow picked up enough radiation on his film sets to get lung cancer? Well yes it is

It is really a side issue. Perhaps I should have mentioned the "best boy" who worked the set of "Stage Coach."

A high proportion of people got cancer who worked the area. In fact soldiers were used like human guinnie pigs to test the effects of radiation. And some soldiers and civilians who were used to test the effects of massive doses of LSD.

If the same logic is applied toward those who question those policies, as is used against those who question current government actions, then anyone who questions the government is a "hate america firster."

The Nationalist morons who use this tactic can kiss my red white and blue loving butt. I love America.

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