America First: Why we need to examine our insane Foreign policy

I am not an America hater by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are the plethora of folks calling for a re-examination of our foreign policies. But that's what we're called.

I really don't want to be against any American. I don't like being on the butt end of insults. So if there were a way to somehow explain what it is that bothers me about our foreign policy without the resultant cries of "traitor! treason! Islam firster!" I would.

One of the main problems apears to be that any "agreement" with bin Laden and his band of murdering thugs is seen to be support. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is probably true that bin Laden knows that water is tantamount to life in the desert. If I agree with this, I am no more supporting bin Laden than you are by agreeing.

When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.

This is puzzling to me. There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews, but for certain they are not perfect. For some, Israel is perfection and any criticism is tantamount to racism. Those who disagree are shouted down with such fervor it makes one pause.

American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's. Movie locations happened to be in the area where tests occurred. Many film industry professionals who worked on movies filmed in Nevada died from cancer including that great American we called "the Duke."

Why is it an indictment on all of America to bring such mistakes to light? In general, the American population has no say so in the slightest regarding these sorts of activities nor do they have much say in our foreign policy.

But as usual, it is the American population that has to accept the consequences of Policy mistakes made by the government. To say that those who object to this "hate America" is completely absurd.

I love America. And those who decry our foreign policy blunders and the theft of our hard earned money that is necessary in order to carry out these blunders also love America. We're simply tired of having to pay the price for those mistakes, while those who carry them out never have to suffer the consequences.

One of the most bizarre claims by those who are calling us "America haters" and "Islam firsters" is that terorrists are simply angry that we are so democratic as a nation and love freedom. These terrorists "hate freedom" and thus hate America and Americans. They're "jealous," in other words, of our prosperity.

This is about as brilliant an analysis as claiming that Timothy McVeigh was upset that he was no longer an employee of the federal government and thus took out his jealosy and rage on that same federal government.

The fact is, we only know what the terrorists claim. Not that it matters much. The opinions of mass murderers are not that important. Clearly however, this is not what any of the terrorists are saying. What they are saying is that they believe themselves to be oppressed by our foreign intervention.

When students took Iranian embassy employees hostage, their reason given for such extraordinary measures was American meddling in Iranian internal affairs.

The Shah of Iran was our personally hand-picked leader for their country. The CIA had, in the time period between the time we basically annexed Iran during WWII, purposefully destroyed opposition to the Shah by using tactics they had learned in South America.

None of those tactics were even remotely related to "freedom" or the principles upon which this nation was founded. They were the actions of a government that believed the Iranian people were chattle and were not worthy of chosing their own leadership.

So what happened? A number of Americans paid the price for our meddling. When we allowed the Shah to enter America to receive medical treatment, the last straw was put upon the back of that proverbial camel.

And that is not to mention the American lives that were sacrificed in a botched rescue attempt. For some, these lives are expendable. They are the price a nation pays for being a "super power." I agree with that assesment. But I don't think we need to be a superpower. I don't think we need to meddle in the affairs of other nations in order to protect our borders.

And therein lies the rub. Dying in order to defend this nation from an attacking force is national defense and is noble. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.

If that is the measure of value for an American life then you can call me an America hater all day long and I will be proud to wear that badge.

I criticize our foreign policies because they result in the deaths of American soldiers and citizens at home and abroad. In no way do I criticize Americans. In the aftermath of the Trade Center attacks, it wasn't the government that responded with such ferocity and bravery. It was the average American.

The Beaurocrats were busy playing CYA and letting us know that none of this was their fault. In the meantime, Americans came up with over 60 million dollars in cash and even more in valuable resources in spite of the fact that they are taxed to the extreme in order to pay for the very policies that helped to incubate the attacks of 9/11.

America proved it's greatness in the response to the attacks. The government proved it's complete disregard for human liberty by passing laws which violate the spirit and letter of the Supreme law of the land. Even while the fires were still burning.

America is a great nation and is full of great people. Unfortunately its leaders have no respect for its people or its laws. Pointing this out is not showing hate for anything but the lawbreakers who do so.

I don't know much about Chomsky. I don't know if 9/11 is a payback for our genocide of the Indian nations (smallpox, federal bounties for every scalp) but perhaps in a more metophorical sense, we are reaping the benefits of immoral foreign policies.

Certainly we have some bad Karma built up and I would argue that for much of our bad behavior we have actually done the best we can to make ammends.

I wish I could watch the broadcast but alas I turned off the cable 5 years ago. Thanks for the heads up.

*******************

To: Demidog
"...You reserve you essays for your hatred of Americans not the enemy.
Every time it starts out the same 'I love my country but..'
You still maintain that there is nothing concrete linking OBL to the WTC.
By using the same burden of proof tell us which current American leader
is guilty of breaking laws and ignoring the supreme law of the land..." # 376 by RGSpincich
************************

Well, RGSpincich,
there may well be concrete evidence linking
ben Laden to the destruction of the World Trade Center .
I'm not sure that he was involved, however.

You can blame my skepticism on the government
that isn't sharing any information with me.

"Trust us, we're your leaders"
is not evidence of ben Laden's guilt.

It's not a question of serving two masters. We're talking about citizenship, which is a question of law. Besides, we are not here to serve the nation, the nation is here to serve us. At any time the nation does not work for us, we are free to change it into something else, just as our forefathers did (they were, after all, British citizens for the most part and were traitors to their nation -- but few people fault them for it).

But, that's immaterial. The fact is it is simply a matter of law. One can hold many citizenships. If the American with a British father were Jewish, he could obtain Israel citizenship too. And then if he moved to Canada he could get Canadian citizenship, and for $50,000 he could get citizenship in Belize, and for $300,000 he could get citizenship to Australia. Yes, some nations simply sell their citizenship. What can be done about it? If you look it up, you will find many stories about people who "collect" citizenships like others collect rare stamps.

*******************

To: Demidog
"...You reserve you essays for your hatred of Americans not the enemy.
Every time it starts out the same 'I love my country but..'
You still maintain that there is nothing concrete linking OBL to the WTC.
By using the same burden of proof tell us which current American leader
is guilty of breaking laws and ignoring the supreme law of the land..."
# 376 by RGSpincich
************************

Um, would that be George W. Bush,
who refuses to prosecute Bill Clinton
for the treason, perjury, obstruction of justice,
and various other corrupt activities committed
during the eight years of the Clinton presidency?

Bush swore to enforce the laws
of the United States.
He isn't doing so.
In fact, he is actively aiding
in the cover-up of Clinton's crimes.

Bush's actions make him an accomplice
to the crimes of treason,
perjury, obstruction of justice,
and all the other crimes
committed by Bill Clinton.

You seem to share that agreement with bin Laden too.

You need to show some guts DemiDog and be intellectually honest. Bin Laden has laid out his case for waging war on us. You are of the opinion that, in the main, our government has brought this on our people because of our foreign policy. You appear to share the same rationalizations for what happened that Bin Laden and most of the Islamic world have put forward. If that is true then for you to be a principled person you would have to classify those that attacked us not as terrorists but freedom fighters…right?

*******************

To: exodus
Well I see that you practiced a little censorship on my post
and then ignored the subject all together.
The part about video taped confessions.
# 406 by RGSpincich
************************

Video taped confessions?
Are you talking about those tapes
that I'm not allowed to watch
until they've been approved for viewing
by my government?

Even the censored version we saw
didn't have ben Laden saying "I did it!"

It just said that ben Laden
approved of the resulting destruction.

That isn't a confession.

Thanks, Demigod, for your post. You are a voice in the wilderness. It's sad that so many Freepers refuse to listen.

I respectfully disagree. I am afraid FreeRepublic is in danger of losinf credibility with potential members. This is because of the preponderance of Libertarian postings. I believe an outsider (or an enemy of FreeRepublic) may decide we are all kooks because of the Libertarian rants.

For example, does anyone really believe it was not in our best interests to keep the Shah in Iran? Look what happened to us when he was gone.

*******************

To: exodus
"Well I see that you practiced a little censorship on my post..."
# 406 by RGSpincich
************************

I didn't take you out of context, RGSpincich.
You're being dishonest.

Bush swore to enforce the laws
of the United States.
He isn't doing so.
In fact, he is actively aiding
in the cover-up of Clinton's crimes.

Bush's actions make him an accomplice
to the crimes of treason,
perjury, obstruction of justice,
and all the other crimes
committed by Bill Clinton.
# 408 by exodus
*******************

"Prove it."
# 411 by RGSpincich
************************

Okay.

I'm going to need a little money,
and access to the governmental files on Clinton's crimes.
Let me know when you have everything arranged with the Justice Department.

I didn't take you out of context, RGSpincich. You're being dishonest.

Evidently you think you took me out of context because I never said that. I implied that you ignored a whole subject, the tapes. You putting words in my mouth is dishonest.

Former agents of FBI and CIA used to gather political information from their colleagues still active in the two agencies. Under the direction of Reagan's campaign chairman, William Casey, Reagan's forces had infilterated Carter's camp with one or more spies. [2] Casey and Bush were very popular with the CIA. William Casey operated an old-boy network of spies, and George Bush was director of the CIA during the Nixon Administration. The CIA was down on Carter. Many agents were outraged by Carter-appointed CIA director, Stansfield Turner. He had had removed about 600 people from their jobs in covert operations, and he disciplined Theodore Shackley and Thomas Clines, two popular and powerful agents who were involved with some unsavory operations. (They were mixed up with Edwin Wilson, who sold explosives to Libya, and was associated with Secord through EATSCO.) The spies associated with the Reagan-Bush campaign played an important role on the Debategate scandal. The Reagan campaign had somehow acquired copies of briefing books used by Carter to prepare for the 1980 presidential debate."

You guys sure know a lot about the internal workings of the CIA. Or, could you possibly be an agent of the DNC to spew this crap?

*******************

"To: exodus
The tapes are more damning to O(ben Laden)
than anything you have trying to incriminate Bush.
# 414 by RGSpincich
************************

How are the tapes damaging?
Ben Laden's glad his enemy was hurt.
That's not proof of involvement.

I don't buy that. The motivation behind pulling out of the mideast and other places we do not belong is self-preservation, not concession to terrorists.

Excellent point. I would only add wealth-preservation as well.

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