Posted on 12/29/2001 9:27:49 AM PST by Demidog
I am not an America hater by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are the plethora of folks calling for a re-examination of our foreign policies. But that's what we're called.
I wish I knew why.
I really don't want to be against any American. I don't like being on the butt end of insults. So if there were a way to somehow explain what it is that bothers me about our foreign policy without the resultant cries of "traitor! treason! Islam firster!" I would.
One of the main problems apears to be that any "agreement" with bin Laden and his band of murdering thugs is seen to be support. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is probably true that bin Laden knows that water is tantamount to life in the desert. If I agree with this, I am no more supporting bin Laden than you are by agreeing.
When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.
This is puzzling to me. There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews, but for certain they are not perfect. For some, Israel is perfection and any criticism is tantamount to racism. Those who disagree are shouted down with such fervor it makes one pause.
American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's. Movie locations happened to be in the area where tests occurred. Many film industry professionals who worked on movies filmed in Nevada died from cancer including that great American we called "the Duke."
Many soldiers who were in the vicinity of those tests also died from cancer.
Why is it an indictment on all of America to bring such mistakes to light? In general, the American population has no say so in the slightest regarding these sorts of activities nor do they have much say in our foreign policy.
But as usual, it is the American population that has to accept the consequences of Policy mistakes made by the government. To say that those who object to this "hate America" is completely absurd.
The truth is quite the opposite.
I love America. And those who decry our foreign policy blunders and the theft of our hard earned money that is necessary in order to carry out these blunders also love America. We're simply tired of having to pay the price for those mistakes, while those who carry them out never have to suffer the consequences.
One of the most bizarre claims by those who are calling us "America haters" and "Islam firsters" is that terorrists are simply angry that we are so democratic as a nation and love freedom. These terrorists "hate freedom" and thus hate America and Americans. They're "jealous," in other words, of our prosperity.
This is about as brilliant an analysis as claiming that Timothy McVeigh was upset that he was no longer an employee of the federal government and thus took out his jealosy and rage on that same federal government.
It is the analysis of the simpleton.
The fact is, we only know what the terrorists claim. Not that it matters much. The opinions of mass murderers are not that important. Clearly however, this is not what any of the terrorists are saying. What they are saying is that they believe themselves to be oppressed by our foreign intervention.
When students took Iranian embassy employees hostage, their reason given for such extraordinary measures was American meddling in Iranian internal affairs.
The Shah of Iran was our personally hand-picked leader for their country. The CIA had, in the time period between the time we basically annexed Iran during WWII, purposefully destroyed opposition to the Shah by using tactics they had learned in South America.
None of those tactics were even remotely related to "freedom" or the principles upon which this nation was founded. They were the actions of a government that believed the Iranian people were chattle and were not worthy of chosing their own leadership.
So what happened? A number of Americans paid the price for our meddling. When we allowed the Shah to enter America to receive medical treatment, the last straw was put upon the back of that proverbial camel.
And that is not to mention the American lives that were sacrificed in a botched rescue attempt. For some, these lives are expendable. They are the price a nation pays for being a "super power." I agree with that assesment. But I don't think we need to be a superpower. I don't think we need to meddle in the affairs of other nations in order to protect our borders.
As is proven time and time again, such meddling has a high price.
And therein lies the rub. Dying in order to defend this nation from an attacking force is national defense and is noble. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.
If that is the measure of value for an American life then you can call me an America hater all day long and I will be proud to wear that badge.
I criticize our foreign policies because they result in the deaths of American soldiers and citizens at home and abroad. In no way do I criticize Americans. In the aftermath of the Trade Center attacks, it wasn't the government that responded with such ferocity and bravery. It was the average American.
The Beaurocrats were busy playing CYA and letting us know that none of this was their fault. In the meantime, Americans came up with over 60 million dollars in cash and even more in valuable resources in spite of the fact that they are taxed to the extreme in order to pay for the very policies that helped to incubate the attacks of 9/11.
America proved it's greatness in the response to the attacks. The government proved it's complete disregard for human liberty by passing laws which violate the spirit and letter of the Supreme law of the land. Even while the fires were still burning.
America is a great nation and is full of great people. Unfortunately its leaders have no respect for its people or its laws. Pointing this out is not showing hate for anything but the lawbreakers who do so.
I'll rephrase it, and summarize everything I've been saying on this thread: As long as the system isn't running the way I want it to be run, I will have to try to make the best of it as it is in the meantime.
wanna go for "abuse"?
Go right ahead and push the abuse button. I could care less.
The list below presents specific incidents of U.S. policy.
It minimizes the grievances against the U.S. because it excludes
long-standing policies, such as U.S. backing for authoritarian
regimes (arming Saudi Arabia, training the secret police in Iran
under the Shah, providing arms and aid to Turkey as it attacked
Kurdish villages, etc.).
The list also excludes actions of Israel in which the U.S. is
indirectly implicated because Israel has been the leading or second
ranking recipient of U.S. aid for many years and has received U.S.
weapons and benefited from U.S. veto in the Security Council.
1949:
CIA backs military coup deposing elected government of Syria.
1953:
CIA helps overthrow the democratically elected Mossadeq government in
Iran (which had nationalized the British oil company) leading to a
quarter-century of dictatorial rule by the Shah, Mohammed Reza
Pahlevi.
1956:
U.S. cuts off promised funding for Aswan Dam in Egypt after Egypt
receives Eastern bloc arms.
1956:
Israel, Britain, and France invade Egypt.
U.S. does not support invasion, but the involvement of NATO allies
severely diminishes Washington's reputation in the region.
1958:
U.S. troops land in Lebanon to preserve "stability."
1960s (early):
U.S. unsuccessfully attempts assassination of Iraqi leader, Abdul Karim Qassim.
1963:
U.S. reported to give Iraqi Ba'ath party (soon to be headed by Saddam
Hussein) names of communists to murder, which they do with vigor.
1967:
U.S. blocks any effort in the Security Council to enforce SC
Resolution 244, calling for Israeli withdrawal from territories
occupied in the 1967 war.
1970:
Civil war between Jordan and PLO. Israel and U.S. prepare to
intervene on side of Jordan if Syria backs PLO.
1972:
U.S. blocks Sadats efforts to reach a peace agreement with Egypt.
1973:
U.S. military aid enables Israel to turn the tide in war with Syria and Egypt.
1973-75:
U.S. supports Kurdish rebels in Iraq.
When Iran reaches an agreement with Iraq in 1975 and seals the
border, Iraq slaughters Kurds and U.S. denies them refuge.
Kissinger secretly explains that "covert action should not be
confused with missionary work."
1978-79:
Iranians begin demonstrations against the Shah.
U.S. tells Shah it supports him "without reservation" and urges him
to act forcefully.
Until the last minute, U.S. tries to organize military coup to save
the Shah, but to no avail.
1979-88:
U.S. begins covert aid to Mujahideen in Afghanistan six months before
Soviet invasion.
Over the next decade U.S. provides more than $3 billion in arms and aid.
1980-88:
Iran-Iraq war.
When Iraq invades Iran, the U.S. opposes any Security Council action
to condemn the invasion.
U.S. removes Iraq from its list of nations supporting terrorism and
allows U.S. arms to be transferred to Iraq.
U.S. lets Israel provide arms to Iran and in 1985 U.S. provides arms
directly (though secretly) to Iran.
U.S. provides intelligence information to Iraq.
1984:
Iraq uses chemical weapons.
U.S. restores diplomatic relations with Iraq.
1987:
U.S. sends its navy into the Persian Gulf, taking Iraq's side.
1984:
An aggressive U.S. ship shoots down an Iranian civilian airliner, killing 290.
1981-1986:
U.S. holds military maneuvers off the coast of Libya with the clear
purpose of provoking Qaddafi.
1981:
A Libyan plane fires a missile and two Libyan planes were
subsequently shot down.
1986:
Libya fires missiles that land far from any target and U.S. attacks
Libyan patrol boats, killing 72, and shore installations.
When a bomb goes off in a Berlin nightclub, killing two, the U.S.
charges that Qaddafi was behind it (possibly true) and conducts major
bombing raids in Libya, killing dozens of civilians, including
Qaddafi's adopted daughter. (Give me a break!)
1982:
U.S. gives "green light" to Israeli invasion of Lebanon, where more
than 10,000 civilians were killed.
U.S. chooses not to invoke its laws prohibiting Israeli use of U.S.
weapons except in self-defense.
1983:
U.S. troops sent to Lebanon as part of a multinational peacekeeping
force; intervene on one side of a civil war.
Withdraw after suicide bombing of Marine barracks.
1984:
U.S.-backed rebels in Afghanistan fire on civilian airliner.
1988:
Saddam Hussein kills many thousands of his own Kurdish population and
uses chemical weapons against them.
The U.S. increases its economic ties to Iraq.
1990-91:
U.S. rejects diplomatic settlement of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait
(Rebuffing any attempt to link the two regional occupations, of
Kuwait and Palestine).
U.S. leads international coalition in war against Iraq.
Civilian infrastructure targeted.
To promote "stability" U.S. refuses to aid uprisings by Shi'ites in
the south and Kurds in the north, denying the rebels access to
captured Iraqi weapons and refusing to prohibit Iraqi helicopter
flights.
1991:
Devastating economic sanctions are imposed on Iraq.
U.S. and Britain block all attempts to lift them.
Hundreds of thousands die.
Though Security Council stated sanctions were to be lifted once
Hussein's programs to develop weapons of mass destruction were ended,
Washington makes it known that the sanctions would remain as long as
Saddam remains in power.
Sanctions strengthen Saddam's position.
1993:
U.S. launches missile attack on Iraq, claiming self defense against
an alleged assassination attempt on former president Bush two months
earlier.
1998:
U.S. and U.K. bomb Iraq over weapons inspections, even though
Security Council is just then meeting to discuss the matter.
1998:
U.S. destroys factory producing half of Sudan's pharmaceutical
supply, claiming retaliation for attacks on U.S. embassies in
Tanzania and Kenya and that factory was involved in chemical warfare.
U.S. later acknowledges there is no evidence for the chemical warfare charge. If this all checks out, we sure have not been a bystander in this area.
1996: Sudan offers to extradite Usama bin Laden to the U.S. The U.S. refuses and instead Afghanistan welcomes Usama into their country. U.S. later blames Sudan of "harboring terrorists" and in 1998 bombs an aspirin factory.
Do not vote. Ever. It is a specious cloak of legitimacy for an inherently immoral enterprise. How is it legitimate for 50,000,001 voters to tell 149,999,999 people how to live? Did you really believe that just because Bill Clinton was elected Madeline Albright spoke for you when she visited North Korea? I'm a WASP male living in Atlanta in John Lewis's congressional district with earnings in the 90th percentile. Do you really think my vote will ever count as opposed to the majority of voters who are net tax consumers?
When the only people left voting are government dependents, there will be so few participants in the democratic process that the next election will be for the Presidency of Washington D.C. The rest of us will be doing what we've always done: working, loving, celebrating, worshipping. The welfare/warfare state and its constant, manufactured "crises," oppressive taxation and inherent corruption will be a distant nightmare. Will life be easy? Of course not! We live in a world of scarce resources, not the Garden of Eden! Will it be better than under government? Absolutely! I don't expect to see it, but I believe my great-great-grandchildren will. Social democracies are, in a relative sense, a recent invention. They are inherently self-contradictory and will eventually collapse from their own internal flaws.
/rant>
What will you be doing about those things you think are wrong?
It depends where you want to get to.
I believe the cracks are showing in the global intervention foundation. I also believe that continuing this down this path of global interventionism will end in chaos for the United States, as we have everything to lose. Much of this global interventionism is based on nothing but greed and power. In my honest opinion, this will lead to nothing but trouble for the United States.
We could be very independent and still trade with friendly nations, and still have the worlds biggest and meanist military for *defense purposes*.
I feel its time for the United States to become more independent. We were warned, many years ago. We should take notice.
Amen to that.
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On the contrary, claiming that we have to change all the worse political abuses of a hundred years in one swell foop, or not at all, is the silly way to argue the point.
I say communism is rapant in america. You close your eyes.
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