Posted on 12/29/2001 9:27:49 AM PST by Demidog
I am not an America hater by any stretch of the imagination. Nor are the plethora of folks calling for a re-examination of our foreign policies. But that's what we're called.
I wish I knew why.
I really don't want to be against any American. I don't like being on the butt end of insults. So if there were a way to somehow explain what it is that bothers me about our foreign policy without the resultant cries of "traitor! treason! Islam firster!" I would.
One of the main problems apears to be that any "agreement" with bin Laden and his band of murdering thugs is seen to be support. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is probably true that bin Laden knows that water is tantamount to life in the desert. If I agree with this, I am no more supporting bin Laden than you are by agreeing.
When we decry any actions taken by Israel, we are "anti-semites." When Israel admitted that they had set a booby trap near an area where children played and 5 Palestinian boys died when it went off, you couldn't get near the topic without being ridiculed.
This is puzzling to me. There is nothing wrong per se with Israel and certainly not Jews, but for certain they are not perfect. For some, Israel is perfection and any criticism is tantamount to racism. Those who disagree are shouted down with such fervor it makes one pause.
American policies aren't perfect either. It is arguable for instance that John Wayne's death from cancer could be attributed to nuclear tests performed back in the 40's. Movie locations happened to be in the area where tests occurred. Many film industry professionals who worked on movies filmed in Nevada died from cancer including that great American we called "the Duke."
Many soldiers who were in the vicinity of those tests also died from cancer.
Why is it an indictment on all of America to bring such mistakes to light? In general, the American population has no say so in the slightest regarding these sorts of activities nor do they have much say in our foreign policy.
But as usual, it is the American population that has to accept the consequences of Policy mistakes made by the government. To say that those who object to this "hate America" is completely absurd.
The truth is quite the opposite.
I love America. And those who decry our foreign policy blunders and the theft of our hard earned money that is necessary in order to carry out these blunders also love America. We're simply tired of having to pay the price for those mistakes, while those who carry them out never have to suffer the consequences.
One of the most bizarre claims by those who are calling us "America haters" and "Islam firsters" is that terorrists are simply angry that we are so democratic as a nation and love freedom. These terrorists "hate freedom" and thus hate America and Americans. They're "jealous," in other words, of our prosperity.
This is about as brilliant an analysis as claiming that Timothy McVeigh was upset that he was no longer an employee of the federal government and thus took out his jealosy and rage on that same federal government.
It is the analysis of the simpleton.
The fact is, we only know what the terrorists claim. Not that it matters much. The opinions of mass murderers are not that important. Clearly however, this is not what any of the terrorists are saying. What they are saying is that they believe themselves to be oppressed by our foreign intervention.
When students took Iranian embassy employees hostage, their reason given for such extraordinary measures was American meddling in Iranian internal affairs.
The Shah of Iran was our personally hand-picked leader for their country. The CIA had, in the time period between the time we basically annexed Iran during WWII, purposefully destroyed opposition to the Shah by using tactics they had learned in South America.
None of those tactics were even remotely related to "freedom" or the principles upon which this nation was founded. They were the actions of a government that believed the Iranian people were chattle and were not worthy of chosing their own leadership.
So what happened? A number of Americans paid the price for our meddling. When we allowed the Shah to enter America to receive medical treatment, the last straw was put upon the back of that proverbial camel.
And that is not to mention the American lives that were sacrificed in a botched rescue attempt. For some, these lives are expendable. They are the price a nation pays for being a "super power." I agree with that assesment. But I don't think we need to be a superpower. I don't think we need to meddle in the affairs of other nations in order to protect our borders.
As is proven time and time again, such meddling has a high price.
And therein lies the rub. Dying in order to defend this nation from an attacking force is national defense and is noble. Sending young men and women across the globe to secure oil fields and preserve the "American way of life" is a sick project. I for one, am not willing to lose a single American for the cynical goal of sub-dollar-a-gallon fuel for my SUV.
If that is the measure of value for an American life then you can call me an America hater all day long and I will be proud to wear that badge.
I criticize our foreign policies because they result in the deaths of American soldiers and citizens at home and abroad. In no way do I criticize Americans. In the aftermath of the Trade Center attacks, it wasn't the government that responded with such ferocity and bravery. It was the average American.
The Beaurocrats were busy playing CYA and letting us know that none of this was their fault. In the meantime, Americans came up with over 60 million dollars in cash and even more in valuable resources in spite of the fact that they are taxed to the extreme in order to pay for the very policies that helped to incubate the attacks of 9/11.
America proved it's greatness in the response to the attacks. The government proved it's complete disregard for human liberty by passing laws which violate the spirit and letter of the Supreme law of the land. Even while the fires were still burning.
America is a great nation and is full of great people. Unfortunately its leaders have no respect for its people or its laws. Pointing this out is not showing hate for anything but the lawbreakers who do so.
No it isn't. Instead of just being argumentative contrarian, why not argue against my reasoning more.
And it is immoral to force the American people to pay to prop up governments who do not value freedom for their own people.
Maybe so. I lean libertarian but where I part ways with the party is mostly on foreign policy. Isolationism gets us nowhere. What government do we prop up that doesn't give freedom to their own people?
Greed? Are you one of those people who think there should be a maximum income? And incidentally, gays vote Democrat. Like Republicans, they want government to subsidize their interests rather than be forced to take responsibility for them.
A libertarian nation wouldn't be able to fight it's way out of a paper bag.
Oh yes it can. Just ask Great Britain.
It appears as though you are the one who needs to cut down on the caffeine.
Simple question for you: If you are so anit-libertarian, why is it always YOU who brings the topic up? A little "projection" perhaps?
You just got through talking to me about morality in government, and then you use Switzerland as an example of good government? Is it moral to be neutral? To accept cash and gold deposits from ruthless bloodthirsty mass murderers and their victims alike? Please. Be consistent.
And I suppose Mike Wallace and Sixty Minutes are so well known for truth and accuracy that the CIA just happened to tell all to them? Get real.
How about until October, the Taliban?
Why wouldn't it be?
To accept cash and gold deposits from ruthless bloodthirsty mass murderers and their victims alike?
What do you call the WTO? Most Favored Trade status with China? You suppport those things but call the Swiss immoral?
Other than; don't ask, I won't tell banking. What have the Swiss contributed to the world in the last 500 years?
The WTO is a joke. Free trade is when a pig farmer in Iowa can take an order from a grocery store in China, and ship the pork bellies directly to the buyer on the carrier they choose. I agree the WTO is a joke and a lie, there is no "free trade" in the free trade agreement. I am opposed to the UN and international police/international courts.
We can discuss specifics and on some we will agree and some we will not, but I refuse to accept your argument that "all foreign aid is bad".
So you figure the majority of Americans want to do away with public education and social security? While I would agree that they are both lousy systems (and I am certainly glad we have alternatives to education and retirement savings), I'd like to see the polls that say Americans want to eliminate both. My guess is that they don't exist and that you'll find that most people would be aghast at such a suggestion. To overturn such thinking will take much time and effort and an effective use of the existing system.
Now, if you don't like the current system, again there is always revolution or a change to the foundational documents. BTW, who would you declare war on? President Bush? AFSCME? Would you kill all the judges or just those government police and fire department employees? All of the above? How many of your neighbors would need to be offed?
Absolutely. It is in our best interest to do so as well.
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