What's your view on the accuracy of the Bible? - FREEP THIS POLL!!!

MSNBC.Com ^ | 12/24/2001 | MSNBC.Com

[Bobby777]

what ever your views are FReep this poll!!! let's keep this thing bumped ... the score is terrible ... c'mon Christians ... it's on the left ... a little bit down ...

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Moses wrote all of Genesis

I consider that very likely, but we do not have the actual document he wrote, only versions which have been passed down from scribe to scribe over thousands of years. I see no reason to think that each and every one of these men were capable of perfection in the transmission of Moses' words. In addition, along with many others on this thread, I do not think that he wrote Genesis in 17th century English.

[wwjdn]

MSNBC...and a poll...what a joke.

There are several incidents in the Bible that can be proven.

Even if it were not provable by "science" (that's another story), I believe it 200%...

[BrucefromMtVernon]

Since the Bible is not to be considered a humanistic book, one does not simply view it as good psychology. Clearly there are several levels of thinking in Scripture, some of which directly "hit the nail on the head," and then again, some which are rather general.

[Dr. Good Will Hunting]

I believe it. Those who wish to "disprove" it have a very large, very far-left agenda.

[a contender]

I'm not quit sure what your asking but the reference in Colossians 1:15 is answered in the next couple of verses. Verse 16 For by him were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before ALL things, and by him ALL things consist. Jesus also told Philip, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, these three are one. Just because we cannot divide ourselves up like that doesn't mean God can't. A man can be three in one, he can be a husband, a father and a teacher, yet he is the same man, not three different men.

[a contender]

Thats one thing I agree with you on. Man is completely incapable of perserving Gods words especially from Hebrew to English. Thats why I believe Psalms 12:6-7 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a funace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." That is a comforting Psalm for me. It tells me that the LORD does the perserving and not man.

[eazdzit]

You state..."I'm not quit sure what your asking but the reference in Colossians 1:15 is answered in the next couple of verses"

Not hardly. verse 1:15 is not a question. Here is the context

KJV Colossians 1:13-15
13. Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14. In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:(ASV=of all creation}
The greek is [prototokos pases ktiseos]

It clearly states that he is of creation. Which means he was created. Do you agree or disagree with the fact that, that is what it says?

Cheers:^)

[PhilipFreneau]

I don't need no stinking poll! God is always right, and the Bible is his Word. Therefore, the Bible is 100% accurate. Interpretations by mere mortals, on the other hand, are seldom accurate. Nuff said.

[Leonine]

I did indeed misunderstand you--Apologies--Have to think about the issues you raised in an informal way. Textual criticism still may not be irrelevant, however.

[tortoise]

That means your father was not a bible believer. It also means he thought he was smarter than God. He also believed God is not powerful enough to perserve His Words purely and perfectly. I know the manuscripts, the ones used to correct the KING JAMES 1611 AV come out of Alexandria Egypt.

You've said nothing but assert your lame personal theories in the complete absence of evidence. Do you think the KJV materialized out of thin air? My father does most of his translation from the ancient greek, including the sources from whence the KJV came. Not that any of this REALLY matters anyway. Whatever. I'm not going to waste my time.

[LowOiL]

Thanks for the link. I voted for for Jesus, who died that I might have eternal life in heaven instead of hell. Thank you Jesus...

Note, you have to allow cookies to vote, one can easily turn on cookies, vote and then erase that evil MSNBC/Washingtonpost cookie clean off the ole puter.

[savedbygrace]

Excellent response. That's pretty much what I was going to say. Thanks.

[a contender]

God the Father, who is God the Word (John 1:1) became flesh and blood (John 1:14) and is called Jesus Christ, the only begotton Son of God. He is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world (Rev.13:8) therefore, Jesus Christ as God the Word existed before our world began and before all creatures were created. If you are using Col.1:15 as proof text to prove Jesus Christ is not God then you have not believed the bible. I gave many references that completely prove that God the Father is God the Son.

[eazdzit]

Accepted.

You state..."Textual criticism still may not be irrelevant, however. "

Agreed. However I have not been made aware of any disagreements with the translation with one exception. A lot of people argue erroneously, that it should be first in rank instead of first born(proto = first, tokos = procreated; like prototype means first of a kind).

In either case it will still be of all creation,and would have no bearing on his being of creation .

Cheers:^)

[Texas Gal]

 

Bobby777 stated that..."... the soul is in perpetual existence "
KJV Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.   Do you have a scripture that contradicts this one?  This scripture, [Luke 16:22 & 23] "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom" does not contradict the scripture you mentioned, but it illustrates the idea that death in the Bible does not mean the soul ceases to exist (and I use KJV as well).  
You also state ......"though Jesus and God are identical....."
How can this be when Jesus was created?
See KJV Colossians 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:(some translations say "of all creation") 15: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:   Keep going to verse 16:   For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him
and then verse 17: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
And then there is that first chapter of the book of John.  Verse 1 says : In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Verse 3 says: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made, and then verse 14 makes it crystal clear exactly who "the Word" is : And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So, who created the heaven and the earth?  God. 
Genesis 1:1:   In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And just for fun, let's notice Genesis 1:26:    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Who made the worlds?    Hebrews 1, verses 1 & 2:   God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds
This seems to be pretty specific to me.
Cheers.

[eazdzit]

You want to change the subject. Not yet. Do you agree that the text at Colossians 1:15 states that Jesus is of creation.

Yes or No please.

Cheers:^)

[JeepInMazar]

Re: your post # 21.

You have stated it exactly. I have seen nothing new in liberal biblical "scholarship". They keep repeating the same silly arguments about Moses not writing the Torah and Daniel not writing Daniel and Isaiah not writing Isaiah, etc.

By the way, the Muslims use the scholarship of the liberals and point out that even "Christians" believe the Bible has been changed.

[RobbyS]

This guy is hopelessly out of touch with New Testament scholarship. It is a she, and she is Jewish, so this is an outsider's view. But it's a dead give away when they quote Crossan and Borg. Crossan is an apostate priest and Borg is the quintesssential liberal. The only things that rings true in this story is the notion that Jesus may have been born among relatives, since Joseph seems to have been a native of Bethlehem.

[JeepInMazar]

COL 1:15 And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation.

First-born indicates he preceded the whole creation and he is soveriegn over all creation. First-born shows Christ's priority to all creation in time, and his sovereignty over all creation in rank.

[eazdzit]

I liked your response. It is very good. As you pointed out the scriptures cited (" does not contradict the scripture you mentioned, but it illustrates the idea that death in the Bible does not mean the soul ceases to exist (and I use KJV as well)".

Depends on who does the deed.

In KJV Matthew 10:28.... And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

With exception of John 1:1:1,(let us save this for another time.)Your discussion on Jesus being God refers to him being "God's Son" and doing all the creating for God. However it does not contradict the statement in Colossians 1:15. Jesus was the first creature created and he created the rest. Answers your response.

My real question here is about the validity of the statement in Colossians 1:15. Does it say that Jesus is "of creation" or not.

Cheers:^)