Posted on 12/22/2001 9:25:23 AM PST by super175
China has hailed the arrest of the man they say murdered a Chinese couple based in the US as "a model for Sino-American police co-operation".
Husband and wife Yang Jianqing and Chen Yuyun were murdered in their Arizona home on November 2 and top Chinese officials publicly urged police to ensure the killer was brought to justice.
Both victims were Chinese nationals working on their doctorates at the University of Arizona in Tucson.
Not knowing if there was a motive behind the killings or if the couple had been racially targeted, the US Government urged universities to tighten security to ensure the safety of Chinese students. But an investigation by Tucson police concluded that the chief suspect, Zhou Wenshi, from Jiangmen, Guangdong, knew the victims and had already fled the US for China, the Legal Daily reported.
A nationwide warrant was issued for Zhou's arrest. Using information provided by American and Guangdong police, police in Beihai, Guangxi, found Zhou hiding in a house in Gaode and arrested him on December 12. Police claim Zhou has confessed to the crimes.
According to the report, Chen was working in a restaurant with Zhou and they had an affair in August last year. Chen's requests for Zhou to lend her money soured the relationship.
Zhou allegedly told authorities that on November 2, Chen demanded again that he lend her money, threatening to scream rape if he did not consent. The ensuing scuffle roused Chen's husband from another room in the house and he allegedly began to attack Zhou with a knife. Zhou reportedly said he wrestled the knife from Yang, and then stabbed both victims to death.
Guangdong police praised the assistance they received from their US counterparts.
Not that its good that this whole thing happened, but IMO the expressing of appreciation goes a long way. No need to kiss our @ss over it, but the expression is good.
IMO there are a lot of areas where there is this kind of cooperation, but no one draws attention to it. Instead they opt for the evil American hegemon thing.
My advice is to look at the whole big picture then speak accordingly. Big picture means last 20 yrs. While there are some conflicts, overall China gets a pretty good deal from the US.
If they speak on those terms instead of losing their temper at everything, then people are a lot more prone to listen to them.
Given that the crime was committed on US soil, but that none of the participants were American, I don't know who has jurisdiction, and for what...
Is there a lawyer in the house?
Sometimes Americans are not tried in foreign courts, and sometimes they are, what the distinction is, who knows?
As for me, I say light 'em sparky. I am not fundamentally opposed to the death penalty. Just so long as there is ample evidence, proper legal proceedings, etc, and the people being executed are not being killed for political purposes (like voicing an opinion or something)... stuff like that...
It sounds like AZPD is pretty convinced.
Amen!
The fact is that the US has been supporting separatists or insurgents to overthrow the Chinese government but China didn't do so to the US.
>>While there are some conflicts, overall China gets a pretty good deal from the US.
The US gets more from China, too. Without China resisting the Japanese aggression in WWII the US wouldn't have defeated Japan in lesss than 4 years.
>>If they speak on those terms instead of losing their temper at everything, then people are a lot more prone to listen to them.
You will certainly lose temper when your house or property is invaded.
>>Given that the crime was committed on US soil, but that none of the participants were American, I don't know who has jurisdiction, and for what...
According to the Chinese law, China can either send them to the US for trial or has them tried within China.
>>Sometimes Americans are not tried in foreign courts, and sometimes they are, what the distinction is, who knows?
I know. If China were ruled by the KMT, the US GIs wouldn't be tried in a Chinese court.
I doubt it, and I am sure they will even charge the family for the bullet.
Kind of like how that American soldier was not recently tried in a Japanese court?
Yes. But Japan is a defeated and occupied country and the US troops are occupation troops there. The KMT's failure in defending China's national dignity was one of the reasons why it lost power. I don't think any Chinese citizen, civilian or soldier, who committed crime in the US could escape the trial by a US court. From the perspective of law both Chinese and US courts have the jurisdiction to try a Chinese citizen who committs crime in the US or a US citizen who committs crime in China. The KMT regime sold China to the US in order to buy the US support in the civil war against the CCP.
In any case, despite that, why should America allow someone to go into a trial without proper proceedings taking place?
If a white person, or just any American for that matter, went to court in China, he is guilty because he is white. They don't need evidence. Being white, or American is evidence enough that you did something wrong.
On the other hand, when assurances are made for fair and unbaised proceedings, which China has none other than some arbitrary I-think-you-are-guilty system, I think America has and will allow people to stand trial where-ever they may be. That is how that US soldier ended up in a Japanese courtroom.
Japan is a defeated and occupied country and the US troops are occupation troops there.
America does not "occupy" Japan. We have troops there, just like we have troops in Italy or Korea, or elsewhere. You make it sound as though the US military controls the Japanese government. The Japanese people are in charge of Japan. If you don't think so, why are they voting, or having elections?
The KMT's failure in defending China's national dignity was one of the reasons why it lost power.
One of the most foolish things is that you and many other Chinese think that the CCP "brought" dignity with them. Truth is the world hates China and has hated them because of Mao and the CCP. America refused all recognition of Mao and the CCP for 30 years, and you think that means respect and dignity? Go ahead and name some countries that respect China.
I don't think any Chinese citizen, civilian or soldier, who committed crime in the US could escape the trial by a US court.
I don't claim to be an expert in this area at all.
From the perspective of law both Chinese and US courts have the jurisdiction to try a Chinese citizen who committs crime in the US or a US citizen who committs crime in China.
The KMT regime sold China to the US in order to buy the US support in the civil war against the CCP.
Well the CCP "sold" China to America to get diplomatic recognition, be allowed into NATO, and to get western help with the economy, so that the CCP would not be driven from power by angry mobs of people who were sick of communism.
I am curious. Exactly what kind of "independence" do you as a Chinese want? "Independence" means China rules all of Asia and calls all the shots, and if you don't like that "shot" then you are an enemy of "China". Feudal thinking at best.
And while the world is growing closer, China is still isolationist in its ideologies and mindset. In a modern world, "China" cannot exist by itself as those other old empires did in the past. The problem with all that propoganda hype is that if those goals are achieved, then China will be cut off from the world as it always has been.
sorry, I forgot to edit that part out.
I am not an international lawyer. But if China had any real law, this might make some difference.
But the GI who killed a Taiwanese in 1950's was NOT tried in Taiwan.
>>In any case, despite that, why should America allow someone to go into a trial without proper proceedings taking place?
Different countries have different laws and proceedings. You don't expect others always do things your way.
>>If a white person, or just any American for that matter, went to court in China, he is guilty because he is white.
Who told you that? There are hundreds of thousands "whites" in China.
>>Being white, or American is evidence enough that you did something wrong.
Sounds like a racist.
>>On the other hand, when assurances are made for fair and unbaised proceedings, which China has none other than some arbitrary I-think-you-are-guilty system, I think America has and will allow people to stand trial where-ever they may be.
Baised or not, it's Chinese law. All people, Chinese citizens or foreingers should be all equal before the law. If Chinese are tried in this way, why should foreingers be tried differently?
>>You make it sound as though the US military controls the Japanese government. The Japanese people are in charge of Japan. If you don't think so, why are they voting, or having elections?
The Japanese constitution was written by the US military aftre WWII. They could even control their constitution.
>>Truth is the world hates China and has hated them because of Mao and the CCP.
The world has no reason to hate Mao and the CCP more than many Chinese do. It was Chinese who sufferred most from their mistakes.
>>America refused all recognition of Mao and the CCP for 30 years,
America insolated China and its 1.3 billion population from the world for 30 years. Do you think Chinese should thank the US for doing that?
>>Go ahead and name some countries that respect China.
I would say most developing countries respect China, right?
>>I am curious. Exactly what kind of "independence" do you as a Chinese want?
What China wants is to be treated equally and fairly in the world and has the right to keep its own way of life and culture.
>>"Independence" means China rules all of Asia and calls all the shots, and if you don't like that "shot" then you are an enemy of "China". Feudal thinking at best.
No. China only wants the right for development. In the past 100 years China has lost a great amount of land to foreign powers. Why shouldn't China protect itself when it's getting strong?
>>China is still isolationist in its ideologies and mindset. In a modern world, "China" cannot exist by itself as those other old empires did in the past.
China doesn't want to be isolated. Instead the foreing powers are trying to isolate China from the world again.
Who told you that? There are hundreds of thousands "whites" in China.
I know. And how many opt for anything within the legal system of China? especially given the fact that the 'testimony' of an America won't be given as much weight as the one of a Chinese...
Also in China they can make up post-facto laws and put you in jail for that. Yesterday it wasn't illegal, but after you did it, we don't like it now, so now it is illegal therefore we sentence you to 20 yrs....
Do you think the CCP will ever find themselves guilty of anything? Its not just between westerners and Chinese. Quite often Chinese themselves can't get a fair trial nor a fair deal from their own government.
Chinese law #1. The CCP is ALWAYS right.
Baised or not, it's Chinese law.
See Chinese law #1. What if there was a big trial about the EP3 in China? What if Americans showed up with irrefutable evidence that says Wang Wei did wrong... Do you think the CCP would allow that? Not a chance...
All people, Chinese citizens or foreingers should be all equal before the law. If Chinese are tried in this way, why should foreingers be tried differently?
China has no standard law system. It sounds like you are one of those reformer types. If they want to move to a system of law over the feudal system still in place, then be my guest. I would welcome that, but a real system of law changes some Chinese culture. Confucian leaders don't like being held accountable.
The Japanese constitution was written by the US military aftre WWII.
So what. It laid a foundation to build a new society that is fair for everyone. There was a clash of systems. Japan had a feudal monarchy kind of like China has now, and when the war was over we came up with a way that in the end benefits Japanese people most. How else do you propose that we deal with that? If it was a Chinese, they would say "just kill all the Japanese, to heck with reform."
The world has no reason to hate Mao and the CCP more than many Chinese do. It was Chinese who sufferred most from their mistakes.
America insolated China and its 1.3 billion population from the world for 30 years. Do you think Chinese should thank the US for doing that?
You kind of just answered your own question... So whose side was America really on? By not recognizing Mao and his regime...? What China wants is to be treated equally and fairly in the world and has the right to keep its own way of life and culture.
And what culture is that? A feudal dicatorship? A Maoist dream? Have you ever had an America force you to stop using chopsticks? Or speaking Chinese? or watching Beijing Opera?
"Culture" is one of the good things about China. The historical "political culture" though is not. The CCP wants to preserve its "political culture" and the way things have been done for the last 2000 years. THAT is the only culture they care about. They are some arbitrary feudal confucian leaders who abuse their posts and think they have Tian Ming.
Americans are given more weight than Chinese are. The American was immediately released aftre he was sentenced 5 years in prison for spying for Taiwan. Do you think China would release him if he is a Chinese citizen?
>>Yesterday it wasn't illegal, but after you did it, we don't like it now, so now it is illegal therefore we sentence you to 20 yrs....
I've never heard of it. Give me some evidence.
>>Do you think the CCP will ever find themselves guilty of anything?
Yes. The CCP has already publicly recognized its mistakes, including Anti-Rightist Movement and Cultural Revolution, and apologized to the Chinese people.
>>Quite often Chinese themselves can't get a fair trial nor a fair deal from their own government.
But foreigners do get a fair trial.
>>What if there was a big trial about the EP3 in China? What if Americans showed up with irrefutable evidence that says Wang Wei did wrong... Do you think the CCP would allow that? Not a chance...
If the CCP don't have concrete evidence to prove the EP3 crew guilty, they won't put them on trial. Also the EP3 is not a legal issue. It's politics.
>>It sounds like you are one of those reformer types. If they want to move to a system of law over the feudal system still in place, then be my guest.
Most Chinese are "those reformers". I advocate the legal reform in China, but I also think people have to abide by the existing laws. Good or bad, they are laws. You want to amend the laws, go through the legal channel.
>>Confucian leaders don't like being held accountable.
It's human nature, but I don't think they can resist the change. The market economy is based on a solid legal system. That's the big picture.
>>There was a clash of systems. Japan had a feudal monarchy kind of like China has now, and when the war was over we came up with a way that in the end benefits Japanese people most.
I have no problem with Americans writing a constitution for Japan because it was a defeated country and deserved every punishment for its war crime in WWII.
>>If it was a Chinese, they would say "just kill all the Japanese, to heck with reform."
No, it's not Chinese culture. China is the only country in the Allies who waived the right to demand war compensations from Japan. Both Chiang and Mao publicly announced that. China has had wars with Japan for 1,000 years. China wants a peace-loving Japan who will not view China as target for conquest.
>>So whose side was America really on? By not recognizing Mao and his regime...?
America was on America's side.
>>Have you ever had an America force you to stop using chopsticks? Or speaking Chinese? or watching Beijing Opera?
The missionaries who enetered China 100 years ago asked Chinese followers not to worship their ancestors (which is the most important part of Chinese culture) because it was against the Christian doctrines.
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