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To: cva66snipe; nicmarlo; sueann; onedoug; the_doc; Jerry_M; Old Glory; ethannorth; all
Re: #273: You seem very confused.

What does the biblical doctrine of grace extended by the ONE True God have to do with the UNbiblical teachings of false teachers like Meyer, Hagee, et.al., who don't even believe in that God?

They teach a "different" God.

Since you don't choose to believe me, and refuse to look into it, I'll provide some links for some others reading this who may want to find out. Here are links to those who take God's admonition seriously when he tells his followers, through Jude, to defend the faith and expose false teachers in order to protect the flock of God. This should get you started:

THE PREACHER WHO DOESN’T TELL IT LIKE IT IS - THE TRUTH TWISTING AND TALL TALES OF JOYCE MEYER

The Christian Arsenal - What is a False Prophet?

Joyce Meyer and Word of Faith

289 posted on 12/30/2001 7:46:51 PM PST by Matchett-PI
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To: Matchett-PI;the_doc
These are from Joyce Meyer's website, the doctrine which with she aligns herself. (And, yes, I get aggitated with people who unfairly attack other Christians):

THE SCRIPTURES
The Bible is the inspired Word of God, the product of holy men of old who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The New Covenant, as recorded in the New Testament, we accept as our infallible guide in matters pertaining to conduct and doctrine. (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 Thessalonians 2:13)

THE GODHEAD

Our God is One, but manifested in three persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Philippians 2:6; John 14:21-26)

God the Father is greater than all, and He is the Source of the Word (Logos) and the Begetter. (John 14:28; John 16:28; John 1:14)

The Son is the flesh-covered Word, the One Begotten, and has existed with the Father from the beginning. (John 1:14; John 1:18; John 1:1)

The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from both the Father and the Son and is eternal. (John 15:26)

MAN, HIS FALL AND REDEMPTION
Man is a created being, made in the likeness and image of God. But through Adam's transgression and fall, sin came into the world. The Bible tells us in Romans 3:23 that "All have sinned and came short of the glory of God." In Romans 3:10 it says, "As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one." Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was manifested to undo the work of the devil, and He gave His life and shed His blood to redeem and restore man back to God. (Romans 5:12; Romans 3:23; Romans 3:10; 1 John 3:8)

Salvation is the gift of God to man, separate from works and the law, and is made operative by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, producing works acceptable to God. (Ephesians 2:8)

ETERNAL LIFE AND NEW BIRTH
Man's first step toward salvation is godly sorrow that works repentance. The new birth is available to all mankind, and when Jesus Christ is accepted as Savior, salvation takes place. He is born again. His Spirit becomes alive to God eternally. (2 Corinthians 7:10; 1 John 5:12; John 3:3-5)

WATER BAPTISM
Baptism in water is by immersion. It is a direct commandment of our Lord, and it is for believers only. The ordinance is a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. (Matthew 28:19; Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12; Acts 8:36-39)

The following recommendation regarding the water baptismal formula is adopted to wit:

"On the confession of your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and by His authority, I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen."

BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT
The baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire is a gift from God. It is promised by the Lord Jesus Christ to those who are believers in this dispensation and is received subsequent to the new birth. This experience is accompanied by the initial evidence of the speaking in other tongues as the Holy Spirit Himself gives utterance. (Matthew 3:11; John 14:16-17; Acts 1:8; Acts 2:38-39; Acts 19:1-7; Acts 2:4)

SANCTIFICATION
The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the Lord. We believe in the doctrine of sanctification as a definite, yet progressive, work of grace, which commences at the time of regeneration and continues until the consummation of salvation. (Hebrews 12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)

DIVINE HEALING
Healing is for the physical ills of the human body and is wrought by the power of God through the prayer of faith and by laying on of hands. It is provided in the atonement of Christ, and it is the privilege of every member of the church today. (Mark 16:18; James 5:14-16; 1 Peter 2:24; Matthew 8:17; Isaiah 53:4-5)

RESURRECTION OF THE JUST AND THE RETURN OF OUR LORD
The angels said, "...this same Jesus shall so come in like manner..." (Acts 1:11). His coming is imminent. When He comes, "the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

Following the Tribulation, He shall return to earth, as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS; and together with His saints, who shall be kings and priests, He shall reign a thousand years. (Revelation 19:16; Revelation 20:6)

HELL AND ETERNAL RETRIBUTION
The person who physically dies in his sins without Christ is hopelessly and eternally lost in the lake of fire. Therefore, he has no further opportunity of hearing the Gospel or for repentance. The lake of fire is literal. The terms "eternal" and "everlasting" used in describing the duration of the punishment of the damned in the lake of fire carry the same thought and meaning of endless existence as used in noting the duration of joy and ecstasy of the saints in the presence of God. (Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 19:20; Revelation 20:15)

295 posted on 12/30/2001 8:23:13 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Matchett-PI
Re: #273: You seem very confused.

No I'm sure of what I say. Am I perfect? No indeed but I am forgiven and Saved By Grace

What does the biblical doctrine of grace extended by the ONE True God have to do with the UNbiblical teachings of false teachers like Meyer, Hagee, et.al., who don't even believe in that God? They teach a "different" God. Since you don't choose to believe me,

I don't have to believe you. Nor do I have to believe them. The truth is I'm not in 100% agreement with any standing teaching of any church. But I listen to learn not to destroy. Billy Graham has one of the best tallents to deliver messages of salvation. It is his gift. Yet he is accused as a heritic by many simply because he does not Baptise at his crusades. Neither did Paul.

I listen to Hagee for understanding of Hebrew traditions to understand parrables & prophecies in that respect the man is brilliant so is Zola Levitt. I read Max Lucado for uplifting of spirit he's a great writter. Are any of them perfect and in the direct word of GOD probably not nor is your preacher. Somewhere you and Viva learned some very unChristian teachings that eat at your soul in hate or jealousy of others teachings. I would question the person teaching you and spreading this type of message.

I have dealt with about every tipe of misinterpitation that can be handed down. That includes a Pentacostal who told my wife her lack of faith kept her in a wheel chair. That's rubish. Adversity is GOD's tempering tool. We face it to grow. I've been through the dark valleys when only those condemned in here would offer sound scriptural advise they were Nuns actually. No I'm not RC either but I was willing to except their wisdom and advice as was my wife. That has led so far to 16 years of a happy marriage despite two persons being disabled. I don't need your narrow misplaced opinions of preachers and the GOSPEL. I do however rely on the Grace of GOD both for salvation and strenght to do what has been asked of me and blessed by him for me to do. I know that my own weaknesses both mental and spititual make me dependent on GODS Sufficent Grace.

How sure am I? Very sure. The same GOD who told me 16 years ago "It was OK" at the lowest time of my life will convict me in spirit the very same way when I am wrong. Yea he's done that as well. To that I believe with all my being. But I want you to consider this. Many persons have been brought to Christ through the messages delivered by these persons. It may not be the message for you to convict you but it may mean an eternity of heaven or hell for others. Do you dare question GOD's plan in others lives? Do you know the person or sermon that can through the power of the Holy Spirit open their hearts? GOD made each person different with individual callings and tallents. I recall him making no one JUDGE of mans eternal salvation. Only GOD can do as much. Will he see Christ in you and not your sins? That alone is the heart of the matter. You are treading on dangerous ground determing other Christ based ministry's rights or wrongs. Now if we were talking about anything other than Judeo Christian faiths I might agree with you. But to condemn brothers and sisters in Christ who have devoted themselves to his ministry and then judge them for it? Not me. Let's leave it to GOD OK?

302 posted on 12/30/2001 8:49:28 PM PST by cva66snipe
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To: Matchett-PI
Only the first link you posted in no#289 worked. The 2nd and 3rd ones came up "bad request". That first one is very eye opening, but I'm not surprized at her doctrines. Birds of a feather flock together...i.e. TBN
414 posted on 12/31/2001 6:07:42 PM PST by a contender
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