QUESTION ON SPANKING (VANITY)

me | 12/20/01 | ME

[frmrda]

Question for Freeper Parents - My wife and I have a 3 year old who is beginning to explore his boundaries. As with every child that includes doing what he is told not to, throwing fits of rage when he doesn't get his way, etc. My wife and I beleive he is now old enough to be spanked when he does not listen and starts trying to do his own thing.

However, my wife, who was not spanked as a child, brought up an interesting question. My son is in the stage where he sometimes shows anger by hitting. We always tell him this is wrong and punish him for it. What do we tell him when he asks why it is OK for us to spank him, but not OK for him to hit.

Granted the right answer to this is "Because I'm the parent". That would be explanation enough for an older child to understand but I don't think a a 3 year old (who is very perceptive) will comprehend that explanation. When I was spanked I never asked that question, mainly out of fear. But it is a good question. Now mind you, this will not stop me from spanking but I just want to see if anyone else had this dilema and how it was solved.

And for all you anti-spanking Nazi's I'm not abusing my son. He will be told before being spanked why he's getting it, will only get one swat on the butt (my father told me when I was older that if you give the kid more than one swat you are doing it for yourself, and not for the education of the child, which is the purpose), and after it is over I tell him I love him and did it because he had to learn a lesson.

Any responses. Thanks in advance.

[joathome]

Very nice post!

[Rockitz]

You need only look at the discipline problem in schools to see the effects of sparing the rod. My father taught high school through the transition period from spanking to no spanking and often discussed the explosion in the lack of respect that kids gained through that transition. Unfortunately that lack of respect starts at home and kids that walk all over their parents are likely to be the ones that have discipline problems in schools and inevitably during life. Our jails are filled with these same "grown-up" kids who lack respect for authority.

[Taliesan]

Sabbath observation is still good and healthy. The death penalty for an infraction was fitting in a situation of martial law (i.e. an entire nation walking in the desert and fighting enemies).

God's comment in Proverbs about discipline being necessary for good love of a child does seem more timeless than the levitical law, doesn't it?

Also, when God talks about "love", He isn't talking about feelings. He's simply describing what are the elements of an objective art called "love".

So, for example, a man can "love" his girlfriend very much, but when they behave improperly before marriage, they fail love, objectively, though they may feel much "love" in the very act.

None of this is meant to question your love of your children, who I am sure enjoy wonderful parents. Just to argue that a love for your children which does not include "the rod" could be more complete, in God's view.

[twigs]

God Bless you! Discipline is such a necessary part of love! It's so sad to see grown-up children whose parents "loved" them too much to do their duty. I was a single parent for twelve years and even in our very loving, supportive church, the nursery and Sunday School workers cringed to see us coming (and my daughter was consistently disciplined). Some are just hard-headed. One person even suggested I put her up for adoption. Isn't that horrible? I was surprised that my husband was willing to take us both on. She didn't want me to marry and did all within her power to stop it. Now, five years later, we both enjoy an incredibly well-adjusted, hard-working, fun and very obedient 17-yr-old. She just told me she thinks her boss at work likes her so much because she just does whats she's told to do without arguing about it--and remains nice to a difficult boss. Some of us have to wait 15 years for this kind of result--I am developing the gray hairs to prove it--but it's so worth it. She is one of my most favorite people to be around.

Enjoy your little tykes this Christmas!

[Colt .45]

Spare the rod, spoil the child! It is a father's duty to correct his son, and any father who loves his son will correct him. The Bible teaches us these things.

[Taliesan]

Immediately upon being caught, the child is reminded that he had been told not to pull the dog's tail, and that his punishment is a spanking. Spank immediately, elicit an apology, and administer lots of love. The apology doesn't have to be totally sincere, but it does have to be spoken in a civil tone. Proud children will eventually learn how to issue a sincere apology.

Spanking should sting, but should not be so very painful that it's cruel. I don't spank through clothes. All that does is force you to spank harder, and you'll probably re-align the child's spine before he feels a good sting. :)

The real key to spanking less is to spend more time in training. We train our dogs in how we want them to act, but we forget that we should train our children! Punishment "after" the fact is not the best way to bring up little children, and is very demoralizing to a child.

Make a list of the 10 behaviors you want to change, and proactively "teach" your child how to behave under positive circumstances and with sincere, but not overdone, praise.

Contrast that with the parent who allows the child to whine and misbehave in the grocery store, and then after she can't "take it anymore", loses it and pops the child one on his backside. Exactly what did he learn? Not much, except that when mommy gets mad he might get a spanking. :(

I love your posts on this thread. Thank you. "We spoiled you and we are sorry" brought tears to my eyes. i hope it had a similar effect on your cherub. :-)

[maxwell]

1) use spanking sparingly or it loses its meaning, 2) do not spank hard, 3) never spank whey you are mad, and 4) make them explain why they got spanked after they calm down. One final note, time out worked wonders with my kids. If spanking becomes your primary dicipline you lost the game.

Hmmmmm... My folks never did this to me and my brothers and we were the best-behaved lil' snots around, at least in public... We got whupped ALOT, and we got the hell whupped out of us, and the folks sure were p!ssed when they were doing it too. They got the point across pretty effectively and I'll probably do the same should I ever acquire some nippers of my own...

Just depends on how things are set up. My folks weren't the touchy-feely type-- everybody didn't sit down and talk a whole lot, and we kids hated it when we did 'cause it usually meant somebody was about to get hurt... More of a pragmatic, introverted upbringing I guess. But it suited us.

[scottiewottie]

I am the father of eleven children and one grandchild. I am an anti-spanking nazi. It has worked worked very well for me and my children. I cannot think of good reason to spank.

[BibChr]

Okay, so now you've shown us arrogance ("God is wrong, I'm right"); dishonesty (explicitly asking for a "Bible-according-to-me" posted response, then turning around and announcing that you won't go to a "Bible-according-to-me" website for the answer); laziness I (won't simply click a link to read the answer to your own question); laziness II (excusing yourself from considering evidence because different people come up with different conclusions)...

Thanks. All that provides a helpful context for weighing your dismissal of God's counsel for parenting as "garbage."

I pray good for you, too.

Dan
How Can I Know God?

[frmrda]

You don't appear to be an anti-spanking Nazi. That term refers to those who say noone else should spank. You made a conscious decision not to spank your kids and that's fine, as you were the parent and knew best. So long as your not out telling others that spank that they are bad parents and are abusing their children when they do spank, you don't qualify as an "anti-spanking Nazi".

[BlackbirdSST]

It is not liberal or mamby pamby to beleive in positive reinforcement. Honestly I believe that you should try to make the dissapointment of her/his parents the worst punishment of all. This doesn't mean that the kid should be able to walk all over you...it just means that through praise and instruction they need to understand what is expected of them and the rewards for doing things well. I prefer this to physical punishment for a simple reason. When the kid gets to be a teenager, the threat of physical/grounding punishment is only a factor when there is a chance of getting caught. Not wanting to dissapoint her/his parents guides them through these rough years.
The shopping malls are full of kid's raised just like yours. Thanks. Blackbird.

[iranger]

"Yes, we are using other forms of punishment like time-out..."

Its funny, when I was growing up there was not term "time out." It was being sent to your room or haviing to sit in the corner. I've come to associate "time out" with the typical feel good Dr. Spock way of discipline. My wife and I refuse to use the term. Instead we use "penalty box." If the kid misbehaves, they sit in the corner a.k.a. "penalty box."

[BJungNan]

The thought of spanking a child always scarred me because it is too easy to go too far, expecially if done at the time the little brats are annoying you most.

When my daughter used to lay down on the floor and throw tantrums, I would lay down next to her and start doing the same. Not mocking, but like I was trying something she was doing. When I had her attention, I would say, wow, that was fun. Now what do you want to do?

I say, never spank them. You can be more creative than that. The dangers are too great.

Here are times you never spank your child.

- Don't hit your sister !SMACK! (It is not right to hit your sister, but I am going to hit you).
- Taking your kid down a toy isle and then spanking their hand for reaching out to the toys. Maddison Ave. spent a lot of money to get your kid to reach out to the toys. And you hit them for doing it. Parents that do this should be punched out for their stupidity.
- When you are mad never spank your child. If you are going to spank, do it after a sentencing hearing.

[joathome]

Thank you. I've been a mom for 21 years, so I've had a little more practice than some here. Practice makes perfect.......I wish! LOL My little "cherub" is simply a lot more strong willed than the other two, but is coming along quite nicely, thank you. She has siblings who are 8 to 10 years older than her, and when she came along, I'm afraid her parents and older siblings spoiled her rotten, while the two parents made but feeble attempts to discipline her. Couple that with the fact that her "younger" sibling came along with health problems, and it was just easier to continue to spoil her. A true recipe for disaster!

I love her dearly, though. Luv' 'em all!

[francisandbeans]

Listen up jackass.

Never once on this thread did I criticize anyone's parenting. I offered up a suggestion. You know nothing of me or my child...yet you chose to insult us both. You are just full of the Christmas spirit, ain't you?

[Sloth]

My question was the very narrow issue of the charge of being a "hypocrite" for disciplining him for hitting but then spanking.

I don't necessarily know how to convey this thought to a 3-year-old, but the dichotomy is about as hypocritical as purchasing things while condemning shoplifters -- i.e., superficially similar physical action but not remotely in the same ballpark morally.

[BibChr]

What an interesting story, what a happy ending. Mine is a bit different, but I'm also a bit obsessively private about these particulars, so please forgive me. I have four kids: ages 2, 6, 15, and 18. Three out of the four are basically constant delights, which when I force myself to be more objective and less idealistic is probably pretty blessed.

Dan

[francisandbeans]

Okay, so now you've shown us arrogance

"Hello Mr. Kettle? This is Mr. Pot....you're black."

[StarFan]

Grounding works right now for my daughter, but I'm not sure what to do next

Next?? Grounding will continue until my 17 yr. old son is on his own. As they get older, it becomes more effective, especially when taking the car away and keeping them home on weekends!! I never believed in spanking, but 'time-out' and 'grounding' has worked wonders.

[francisandbeans]

careful there....someone may accuse you of not loving your child and blame you for societies woes with that attitude.