[Protagoras]

Actually its a little more complicated than that

I kept it simple, for a reason. As far as I am concerned all the rest is just theoretical dancing around. It is a real issue of life and death and all the speculation in the world about humans vs people, souls or no souls, is nonsense that can never be settled in this life. Meanwhile, people either are or might be getting murdered.

The pain thing doesn't get it for me either. A bullet in the brain is probably painless too.

[jackbob]

I'm at a disadvantage here. JR has placed very stern restriction on arguing the issue here at FR. But I think I can say why it is not simple. Even if you are right, killing is not murder unless the killer can be reasonably expected to recognize it as such. The last time I saw a poll on that subject (about three or four years ago I think) way less than half of the Republicans considered it murder, though more than half were for criminalizing it). At any rate Libertarianism speaks not directly to human rights, but rather to individual rights. I suppose you could argue that when the woman becomes pregnant, she ceases in part to be a full individual, and to that degree, she must share her individual rights. I don't agree, but I think it would make a strong argument.