Posted on 12/12/2001 7:21:41 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
In the year 1531 in Mexico, the Holy Virgin Mary appeared to Juan Diego, a peasant who was converting to Catholicism. It was the 9th of December, the original feast day of the Immaculate Conception, when Juan Diego was on his way to the Church for instruction and to hear Holy Mass. Juan heard someone calling him "Juanito...Juan Dieguito." Juan Diego looked to the top of Tepeyac Hill and saw a lady of overpowering brillance and beauty, who's garments shone like the sun. She appeared to be about 14 years old.
The Lady introduced herself in these words: "Know for certain, dearest of my sons, that I am the perfect and perpetual Virgin Mary, Mother of the True God, through whom everything lives, the Lord of all things, who is Master of Heaven and Earth. I ardently desire that a temple be built here for me where I will show and offer all my love, my compassion, my help and my protection to the people. I am your merciful Mother, the Mother of all who live united in this land, and of all mankind, of all those who love me, of those who cry to me, of those who have confidence in me. Here I will hear there weeping and sorrows, and will remedy and alleviate their sufferings, necessites and misfortunes." She told Juan Diego to go the Bishop Zumarraga and tell him what he had seen and heard.
Juan Diego bowed reverently and said "My Holy One, my Lady, I will do what you ask of me."
Bishop Zumarraga had been sent by Spain to the New World to convert and instruct the native people. At that time in Mexico human sacrifice to the gods Quetelcoatl and Coatlicue, and various other pagan gods were occuring, as many as 20,000 victims would be sacrificed at the dedication of a temple.
Bishope Zumarraga had not been having much success converting the Aztec and native people and distrust and anger was spreading amongst the two. He had been praying to God for assistance and a sign, the sign was that of roses. Roses would be the sign that Bishop Zumarraga wanted in order to know that he was doing the right thing. But now it was December and roses were not blooming.
Juan Diego arrived and was greeted by the Bishop. The Bishop welcomed him warmly but upon hearing his story dismissed him pleasantly. Juan Diego thought he had failed and after hearing Mass and instruction returned to his home.
Our Lady appeared to him again, asking him if he had had success with the Bishop. Juan told Our Lady that he did not think the Bishop believed him and that perhasps she should send someone of greater importance. Our Lady smiled at Juan Diego, telling him that she had chosen him to be the deliverer of the message and urged him to return to the Bishop the next day and again make the request.
Juan Diego did return the next day and again gave the Bishop the message. Bishop Zumarraga was surprised to see Juan Diego again so soon. He questioned him a bit at length and again dismissed him. Now he wondered if there were something too Juans message. Before dismissing Juan Diego the Bishop told Juan that he needed a sign from the Lady to be convinced. Juan asked the Bishop what kind of sign he would like and he would tell the Lady the Bishops reequest. The Bishop told Juan that he would leave the sign up to the Lady to deliver.
On his way back home Juan Diego again encountered Our Lady. He told her that the Bishop had requested a sign but did not say what the sign should be. Our Lady told Juan: "That is very well,my little son, return here tomorrow and you will have the sign he requested." She also told him that he would be rewarded for all he had done on her behalf.
When Dec. 11th came Juan Diegos uncle, Juan Bernardino, was gravely ill and Juan Diego stayed by his side and did not go to the Bishop. All night he prayed and attended to his uncle until the morning of the 12th when his uncle took a turn for the worse. Juan wanted to get a priest to enable his uncle to recieve the sacraments before he died.
Juan now had a dilemma, if he went past Tepeyac hill he was sure to encounter the Lady. He wanted to get the priest in order to bring him to his uncle before he died but did not want to disappoint Our Lady so he decided to go around the other side of Tepeyac hill. He thought that surely Our Lady would understand.
As Juan Diego tried to duck Our Lady he was suddenly intercepted by her, as she called out to him "What is the matter my little son?" "Where are you going?" Juan explained to the Lady "Noble Lady, it will grieve you to hear what I have to say. My uncle, your poor servant, is very sick. He is suffering from the plague and is dying. I am hurrying to the Church in Mexico City to call a priest to here his confession and give him the last rites. When I have done this, I will return here immediately to convey your message." "Please forgive me and be patient with me. I am not decieving you. I promise to faithfully come here tomorrow with all haste."
There was a pause. Our Lady looked at Juan Diego and uttered the words that have rung down through nearly 5 centuries. "Listen and let it penetrate your heart, my dear little son, do not be troubled or weighed down with grief. Do not fear any illness or vexation, anxiety or pain. Am I not here who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not your fountain of life? Are you not in the folds of my mantle? In the crossing of my arms? Is there anything else you need?" She then assured Juan that his uncle would not die from his illeness and at this very moment was cured.
She told Juan to go to the top of Tepeyac Hill and pick as many flowers as he could carry and bring them down to her. Juan climbed the hill and could not believe the multitude of Castilian Roses blooming on the top. They were blooming out of season. He gathered as many as he could carry and brought them down to Our Lady, who arranged them in his tilma (poncho made of cactus plant fibers. Our Lady arranged them and folded them up in Juans tilma. She told him that this was the sign that the Bishop wanted and to take them to him.
Juan Diego finally got in to see the Bishop with his bundle. The Bishop recieved Juan and Juan told him the following. "Your Excellency, I obeyed your instructions, very early this morning, the celestial Lady told me to come and see you again. I asked for the sign which you requested and which she had promised to give me. She told me to climb to the top of the hill where I had previously seen her, to pick the flowers growing there. I knew quite well that the summit of the hill was no place for flowers to grow, especially this time of year, but I did not doubt her word. When I reached the top, I was astonised to find myself surrounded by beautiful flowers. I plucked as many as I could carry and brought them back to her. She arranged them with her own hands and replaced them in my robe in order that I might bring them to you. Here they are. Behold, recieve them." With that Juan Diego released the ends of his tilma and the flowers, mingled with Castillian Roses, cascaded to the floor in a profusion of colour and perfume.
Zumarraga gazed speechless at the roses, the sign that he had been praying for peace in the country. Full of wonder he lifted his eyes back up to Juan Diego to find that the tilma now had an image of Our Lady appearing on it.
From that day, December 12th 1531, the tilma has survived, miraculously. At that time 8 million Mexicans and Aztec Indians converted to Catholicism. The human sacrifice to the pagan gods ceased.
For nearly 500 years there have been miracles through Our Lady and the tilma. Scientists have studied it, socialist revolutionaries tried to destroy it, there have been volumes written about the tilma, which is very much like the Shroud of Turin.
On this feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe, which means to the Aztecs "she who crushes the head of the serpent" I would urge you to read the story, say some special prayers to Our Lady, particularly to end the human sacrifice of abortion in this country.
Mary was borne sinless through the Immaculate Conception. However, since all of us are born with Original Sin, she could only have been borne sinless through the Salvation of Jesus Christ. Why couldn't Jesus save his Mother from sin before he "came down from heaven and was made man?" John tells us that Jesus is eternal. All things are possible for God.
Maybe one denotes males and one females? I'm not a Greek scholar, but if you can clarify the question, I can get you an answer. Remember this, these "Brothers and sisters" of Christ could be step-siblings. These other children are never referred to as being "son of Mary" or "daughter of Mary."
SD
I'm a religous bigot like Paul the Apostle
" Titus 1:9 9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. (NIV) "
I don't consider fairy tales about a woman who the"fountain of my life" to be sound doctrine.
Don't take it personal. I would do this to anyone who posted such blasphemous garbage
Step siblings? To be step "siblings" means that either Mary had these children with another man or Joseph had them from a previous marriage.
Now I haven't been in the Catholic faith for 10 years but I sure would be interested if they are now using the "Step kid" slant to keep the hoax of perpetual virginity alive.
Was the mother of Mary also sinless? Surely God would not allow the "Mother of God" to be born from a sinfull womb? And how about Marys mothers mother?
It can go on and on. It just shows the stupidity of such doctrine
But, that is not my focus, my focus is on the tilma, have you read the story for yourself? Have you investigated it for yourself?
(I'm guessing the answer is no)
Its fun to go back in history and read these same arguments, Justin Martyr refuted the same ones, I believe back in the 300's.
Being a fundementalist I don't have too. The bible tells us about myths
1 Tim 1:4 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work-- which is by faith. (NIV)
1 Tim 4:7 7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. (NIV)
2 Tim 4:4 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. (NIV)
2 Cor 11:14 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (NIV)
Researching the bible takes away the urge to study the warm and fuzzy folklore.
I must admit the answer is no. I do plan on looking into this along with the face on Mars and crop circles.
At the present time I'm researching the claim that the picture of Tiger Woods on a Wheaties box looks like a 4th century painting of Mary and appears to be crying. ;)
Really? Let me give you 2 places from 2 different translations where this heretric belief shows up
Col 4:10 10 My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. (You have received instructions about him; if he comes to you, welcome him.) (NIV)
Luke 1:36 36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. (KJV)
I'm sure your use of the word "heretic" is the Catholic meaning:anyone who doesn't follow the heresies of catholiism.
", not even Luther. "
Catholics always try to refute us with Luther. Luther was a Catholic who tried to reform the Catholic church. He believed in many of the churches false teachings. It is true that we have many of the same beliefs as Luther but to try to refute our teachings with those of Luther are absurd.
fundies and Luther are miles apart on many doctrinal matters.
You have to remember Luther was a Catholic for a long time God obviously didn't have time to beat all the catholicism out of him....;)
Catholics do not and should not read the King James Bible, which is a Protestant, abridged version of the Latin Vulgate. Stick to the Douay-Rheims version.
Firstborn is a legal term indicating a special privilege or rank. Psalm 88:28 "And I will make him my firstborn, high above the kings of the earth." David is referred to as the firstborn even though he was Jesse's eighth son. Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" Many people were born prior to Jesus, St.Paul is indicating that Christ has primacy over all creatures. The use of the term "firstborn" in Matthew 1:25 does not prove that Mary had other children and if she had then Sacred Scripture would tell us who they are.
That's a hell of a lot to read into one word. Especially given the meaning of the concept in the society at the time. There were special sacrifices that needed to be given to celebrate the firstborn of both women and livestock. The concept of the "firstborn" common in the day, as it is still today, implies nothing about the number of subsequent children. You read all of this into the Bible, not out of the Bible.
To put it another way, if this word "firstborn" is used at this point to denote that Jesus was the first of many chldren, it is an example of needless redundancy. We already know, from the Virgin Birth that Jesus is the first born chronologically. Duh. It is mentioned here not to convey information about future alleged children, but to mark the specialness in Jewish thought of the first to issue forth.
SD
This discussion (regarding the perpetual Virginity of the Holy Virgin, Jesus's Bretheren) has been going on for quite some time.
In this discussion St. Jerome (we've all heard of him) has a talk with one "Helvidius" regarding the matter.
Here is a link to the site and you can read it for yourself if you so desire.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm
Enjoy. Not only does St. Jerome (the saint who translated the Bible) discuss the perpetual Virginity of Mary, he also discusses the topic of "Jesus's Brethren" and how Virginity is preferable to the/and in the married state.
but...
"Ever hear the term "Doubting Thomas." Jesus' own disciple didnt even believe until he probed the nail marks in His hands and feet and put his hand into Our Lord's side."
Yes, I have.
"There are still doubting Thomas's today. This helps our faith. Jesus said that he would never leave us and appeared many times after His death. So, he has also appeared throughout history to many saints. What is wrong with Him sending an ambassador, His own Mother? Do you think he could not do it? Would not allow it?"
True, my unbelief helped me believe even more. There's nothing wrong with him sending an amabassador. I think he has millions of ambassadors. I think he could send Mary as an ambassador if he wanted too.
"Have you ever studied it for yourself?"
The apparition? I've looked at a few websites. I don't really know what to think of it.
I'll comment on this article.
"Know for certain, dearest of my sons, that I am the perfect and perpetual Virgin Mary, Mother of the True God, through whom everything lives, the Lord of all things, who is Master of Heaven and Earth. I ardently desire that a temple be built here for me where I will show and offer all my love, my compassion, my help and my protection to the people. I am your merciful Mother, the Mother of all who live united in this land, and of all mankind, of all those who love me, of those who cry to me, of those who have confidence in me. Here I will hear there weeping and sorrows, and will remedy and alleviate their sufferings, necessites and misfortunes."
OK. She gives glory to the Father, but why on earth would she want a temple built for HER? She as quoted as saying "Here I will hear there weeping and sorrows, and will remedy and alleviate their sufferings, necessites and misfortunes."
I have a problem with that. That's not her job is it? Isn't it Jesus'? Isn't he The Great Physcian? We are healed by HIS stripes.
Even Deigo says "You are My Holy One". Well to be blunt, he's looking at the wrong person. Jesus is The Holy One.
I don't mean to be-little your faith, or that of others, but the questions arise. People call the Seventh Day Adventists, or the Mormons a cult, for far less deviations from the Bible. The SDA are called a cult, because they want to worship on the Sabbath, and the Mormons are called a cult, because they called their leader infallible, and a prophet of God, just like the Pope.
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