Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

RED AND BLUE RECONSIDERED (Johnny Walker a "Right Wing Zealot??")
"The Daily Dish" ^ | 11 December 01 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 12/11/2001 4:29:09 PM PST by MoJo2001

One email has really got me thinking. The best point of those who disagree with my earlier post on Walker/Spann is that Walker wasn't/isn't really a lefty. He's actually a right-wing religious zealot. Here's the case: "Maybe I missed something, but I am not sure how a religious fundamentalist and zealot like John Walker is an embodiment of the American Hating Left. He is a right wing religious nut just like the guy arrested here in Cincinnati last week for sending fake anthrax to abortion clinics. While you may be correct that his permissive parents and his multicultural context may have produced him (sounds like something some right wing nut case would say about homosexuality, right Andrew?), what it produced was a right wing Islamic religious nut who hates the West and America for its decadence (which he enjoyed and benefited from) and sin, just like his brothers on the right wing Christian extreme (like maybe Tim McVeigh, who was a Catholic to boot?). Let's at least be honest that Walker represents some of the worst of American permissiveness and multiculturalism, while being the embodiment of right wing religious fanaticism. I think we all get caught on this one." This strikes me as pretty smart. What it misses, though, is that Walker actually rebelled against Catholicism for being too strict when he was younger. I think he was attracted to Islam as much by its exoticism as by its strictures. I think we have a classic case of being brought up with really permissive parents in a really permissive culture. You want to rebel, but your authority figures approve of 'rebellion' so you have to find some sort of anti-liberal rebellion. Islam fits the bill perfectly. Hip-hop was a mite too predictable and you can imagine his parents almost approving. The extremism with which he pursued his rebellion is probably inexplicable out of psychoanalysis. But the link between his chosen lifestyle and the culture in which he was born is still valid, I think. - 12/11/2001 07:25:31 PM


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: andrewsullivan; jihadjohnny
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-95 next last
To: MoJo2001
Brrrrrnnnntttt! Try again.
21 posted on 12/11/2001 5:14:41 PM PST by Lee'sGhost
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mille99
You're a good person to ask. While at a Christmas/ Hannuka party this weekend, a liberal friend of mine was going on about how naive Americans are about how people in other countries really feel about us. She said that in light of September 11, we really need to learn more about that and how the actions of the U.S. lead these other people of the world to feel bitterly toward us.

I have a liberal friend myself who proposed this exact same thing. I asked her "If a woman gets raped, did she somehow deserve it?" For a brief moment I think I got through to her. Either that or she was trying to recall the days talking points :)

22 posted on 12/11/2001 5:19:18 PM PST by VetoBill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: MoJo2001; All
Also, could someone explain to me how exactly Katie Couric, Diane Sawyer, or Barbara Walters seem to feel complete sympathy for this guy and yet, he's considered a "right wing zealot"?? He's not a right wing zealot? He's a "traitor" to America and his parents are a member of the Liberal mentality for rearing children. I just knew they were going to start blaming this on us sooner or later! As usual, do you find it funny how they always have to put SEX in the conversation when they are trying to prove a point?? Good grief!

WELL SAID!
Two Items....Only Two...Nothing More J





'Nuff Said


J
23 posted on 12/11/2001 5:20:45 PM PST by Fiddlstix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MoJo2001
There is only one label for Jihad Johhny......TRAITOR
24 posted on 12/11/2001 5:22:14 PM PST by OldFriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BunnySlippers
Once a Catholic always a Catholic ..

I'm not a Catholic but I can tell you McVeigh wasn't one on that April morning, he wasn't even a Christian.
25 posted on 12/11/2001 5:28:44 PM PST by Arkinsaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
Roger that.

The left calls every devil a conservative, and every angel a liberal.

How silly.

Especially when, over here in Reality, it's just the opposite.

26 posted on 12/11/2001 5:38:02 PM PST by Dr. Octagon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: rudeboy666
Christians, fundamentalist or otherwise, do not hate America.

They want to restore it's glory, and resent the feminist asault on all that's of value.

There's a difference.

27 posted on 12/11/2001 5:42:03 PM PST by Dr. Octagon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: MoJo2001
From a thread at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/588594/posts that details the Internet postings of John Phillip Walker Lindh/Suleyman al-Lindh/Abdul Hamid/John Walker:

"The more we try to imitate and please the kaffir, the more they laugh at us. 'Look at them stupid Mozlems, trying to be like us! Gee wheeyiz, I shore am glad Ize an Amuricayin Chrishchen! Hee haw,'" he wrote.

There you have it. One of the core attitudes of American leftism, as absorbed by a screwed-up, somewhat dumb child of divorce from Marin County in the rotten heart of the America-hating Blue Zone. Maybe I should mail it in to Andrew Sullivan.

28 posted on 12/11/2001 8:11:19 PM PST by TheMole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BunnySlippers
How do you become "Not a Catholic"?

It is so deliciously ironic that you of all people would ask such a question. One method of becoming 'not a catholic,' which is to say 'to be excommunicated,' is to aid or abet the procurement of an abortion. Ring a bell?

29 posted on 12/11/2001 8:20:16 PM PST by Petronski
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Petronski
It is so deliciously ironic that you of all people would ask such a question. One method of becoming 'not a catholic,' which is to say 'to be excommunicated,' is to aid or abet the procurement of an abortion. Ring a bell?

Even people who are on death row for killing someone are Catholics. Don't let your views on abortion cloud your mind.

30 posted on 12/12/2001 2:39:07 AM PST by BunnySlippers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: BunnySlippers
You need to research grounds for ex cathedra excommunication. Those who obtain, perform or aid procurement of abortions are excommunicated automatically and definitely should not be taking the sacraments. Oh, and one oght not blame my views on abortion, this is straight from the Vatican.
31 posted on 12/12/2001 6:44:18 AM PST by Petronski
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Petronski
http://www.cath4choice.org/cathwomen/abortiondecision.htm
32 posted on 12/12/2001 4:45:50 PM PST by BunnySlippers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MoJo2001
Look, it's very simple: to a leftist, anyone that does anything bad can be instantaneously, verbally placed on the right for PR purposes if the political need arises.

Under ordinary circumstances the left is very sympathetic towards and closely aligned with Islamic fundamentalist revolutionaries. Day after day we hear that Israel is an apartheid state, that we've starved to death half a million Iraqi children, etc. We're supposed to be on the side of "the Palestinians" and give the PLO the time of day. We're supposed to "understand", "why they hate us", and realize that with our Western imperialist ways we are not respecting their beliefs.

Then some dumb kid actually acts on all that rhetoric, goes over there, and takes up arms with the bad guys, and suddenly it's "Oh no! Disengage!" Suddenly he's not a leftist, he's a right-wing nut. Why? "Because he's religious!" Ah yes, the old standby. If it hadn't been "religion", it would have been some other reason (maybe: "he's on the right because he had a wealthy upbringing..."). But make no mistake, anyone who does anything bad or unpopular can be disconnected from the Left and grafted onto the Right at a moment's notice.

Remember the commies from the Cold War, like Milosevic? Then remember in the '90s when suddenly Milosevic was an evil ethnic-cleanser, a "hard-line conservative"? How do you think that happened, hmmm?

Heck, I've seen people argue with a straight face that Stalin was "really" a right-winger. In the face of that, one is forced to concede that all bad people are (de facto) right wingers.

At least if leftist rhetoric is to be believed.

33 posted on 12/12/2001 4:55:07 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
The left would try to blame the right for a cloudy day, if they could.

Do you have any evidence for what you just stated? Just when does the left begin and end?

Eldar Pompov
Topeka, KS
34 posted on 12/12/2001 4:59:53 PM PST by ahmedtousay1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Octagon
They want to restore it's glory, and resent the feminist asault on all that's of value.

Please state some examples of how to restore its glory? And what was the glory? Give me that old time religion of the slavery South?

Eldar Pompov
Temperate in Topeka living in the land of the free.
35 posted on 12/12/2001 5:04:23 PM PST by ahmedtousay1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: okiedust
Just another fundie, I guess. Who'd a thunk it? He was not on a spritual journey, he was doing the same thing that Dylan Kelbold and Eric Harris were doing: Living in a fantasy world and acting it out.... Young, disfunctional and angry. There's nothing more nor less to say about that.

Where did you get your degree? I assume you have fact gathered to the point where you can state the "real" truth behind Mr. Walker's motives?

Eldar Pompov Topeka, KS
36 posted on 12/12/2001 5:07:16 PM PST by ahmedtousay1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: BunnySlippers
Once a Catholic always a Catholic ...

Ok look, try to focus on what is important in this discussion. When we try to characterize someone's motives (whether they are on the left or right, whether they are an Islamic fundamentalist or an atheist humanist communist...) we are not interested in what religion their parents were, per se. This is not a genetic investigation. It is an ideological one.

For example: John Lindh was an Islamic extremist, in thought and deed. Therefore, that is what is important in evaluating his motives and actions, and learning from them whatever lessons we might learn. It is not important, from this point of view, that his father was a nominal Irish Catholic or that his mother flirted with Buddhism (except to the extent that this circumstance may have contributed to his infatuation with Islam).

Now then, to McVeigh. Once again, when analyzing who McVeigh "was" (i.e. religion, ideology...) it is not all that informative to just go look up who his mother was. We are interested in what McVeigh himself actually believed. So you can see that your idea that once someone is born a Catholic, they're always a Catholic - while for all I know may be technically true - doesn't help us.

We are trying to examine what McVeigh believed during his life, not which religious identity he was tagged with at birth. Why? Because to some extent, it may be possible to blame his ideology/beliefs for what he did. (By contrast, it is not possible to blame "Catholicism" for what he did merely because he was born into a Catholic family.)

Now then, what were McVeigh's actual beliefs? Well, he was a neo-Nazi involved with a white supremacist commune in Oklahoma which called itself "Elohim City" and had many pseudo-German-pagan beliefs. It appears to have been his involvement with "Elohim City" which got him mixed up in the bombing.

Another way of saying this is that Tim McVeigh, the guy who bombed Oklahoma City, was not a Catholic. Just like everyone has been explaining to you.

37 posted on 12/12/2001 5:08:32 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: ahmedtousay1
You ask too many questions that either have obvious answers or are definitional in nature. Go get an education and then return with more intelligent ones.
38 posted on 12/12/2001 5:10:09 PM PST by Lazamataz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ahmedtousay1
I take it back. You're just being confrontational.

Where did you get your degree?

Where'd you get yours?

I assume you have fact gathered to the point where you can state the "real" truth behind Mr. Walker's motives?

Hey Sparky, it's called 'inference from available evidence'. Try it some time.

39 posted on 12/12/2001 5:11:54 PM PST by Lazamataz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Bahbah
The liberal atheism-promoters also typically refer to Hitler as a Catholic, which of course is absolutely untrue.

Someone posted data here recently which showed that more human lives have been taken by atheists than all other religions combined.

40 posted on 12/12/2001 5:20:14 PM PST by Kryptonite
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-95 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson