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To: mbb bill
Sorry to disappoint you. I am neither dead, nor afraid. And the notion that to do God any good you have to be either is just plain stupid and unscriptural.

God said "with LONG life will I prosper thee," and Paul said that in Hebrews that the martyrs REJECTED a deliverance from the Lord---their choice---in order to obtain a "more perfect salvation." Now, I don't know what that is, cause the salvation I have is about as perfect as you can get. I suspect Paul meant that IN THEIR MINDS there was a "more perfect salvation."

But I notice that Jesus Christ ROUTINELY escaped crowds that sought to kill Him, and that ONLY when it was His appointed time did He offer Himself up. I notice that Paul did not hesitate to take a bucket over the walls of Jerusalem, and only when he IGNORED the prophetic warnings of the Holy Spirit not to go to Jerusalem was he imprisoned.

I understand this steps on the toes of those Christians who either want to be martyrs (go right ahead---where is your plane ticket to Saudi Arabia? Why are you still here?) or those who see all Biblical martyrs as somehow superior. I have no doubt about the sincerity of the martyrs, but I notice that NOT ONE PERSON, EVER, was directly converted as a result of a martyr. Oh, there was lots of mourning. But notice just the opposite happened EVERY TIME there was a healing! People flocked to the Gospel. Yes, Jesus told Peter that he would be killed, but Jesus did NOT tell any other apostle that directly, and to one he said, "Hey, dude, what is it to you if I tell you to wait here for all eternity?" In other words, Jesus had a specific plan for Peter. I think there are GREAT lessons in the Biblical martyrs, especially how not to be one and how to live for Christ rather than die for a "cause." Even Paul said "to live for Christ is GAIN."

But as I say, there will be those who see this as blasphemy, and all I can say to you is, "Go ahead, then, and demonstrate your faith by flying over to Yemen or the Sudan."

14 posted on 12/11/2001 4:43:53 AM PST by LS
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To: LS
Even Paul said "to live for Christ is GAIN."

Actually he said "For to me to live is Christ; and to die is gain." (Philippians 1:21)

63 posted on 12/11/2001 12:47:08 PM PST by VRWCmember
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To: LS

In response to your condescending attitude toward persecuted Christians, you have an arrogant way of mishandling the Bible to make it say what you want it to.

You should be grateful that you are fortunate enough to live in a time and place where you can worship freely.

I am not going to get into a Bible debate, but Christ taught that being His disciple required forsaking everything including one's own life.

To deride those who must face the possibility of death or torture in order to become a Christian, makes your version (or perversion) of Christianity highly suspect.


90 posted on 09/08/2004 12:14:23 PM PDT by unlearner (you are an arrogant fool)
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