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To: Physicist
Sorry for not getting back sooner. I've enjoyed this thread.

Godel's Theorem applies only to mathematical systems that encompass arithmetic of whole numbers. Other systems may be exempt. In fact, Godel himself demonstrated consistency of the predicate calculus.

The point is that a formalist would argue that Godel's Theorem devolves from the axioms used to derive it. It's true only because of the structure of the axiom set.

Hard-core intuitionists may not even regard it as an established proof because its proof requires that arithmetic be consistent, and if it's true then the Theorem itself implies that arithmetic cannot be shown to be consistent through the underlying axiom set. That is, Godel's Theorem is provable only if you can prove something that Godel's Theorem shows to be unprovable.

122 posted on 12/07/2001 12:34:56 PM PST by OBAFGKM
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To: OBAFGKM
Godel's Theorem applies only to mathematical systems that encompass arithmetic of whole numbers. Other systems may be exempt.

Point taken, but the systems that do not address the topic of whole numbers--for that same reason--can't overturn Gödel's theorem, while the theorem applies to all systems that do address whole numbers. So the universality of the truth remains. If a system covers whole numbers, I can say before I see the axiom set that it is not both complete and consistent.

(I am laying aside the issue of whether Gödel may have been wrong, as I am not qualified to form my own opinion on the matter. There are always dissenters to any conclusion, certainly, but as an outsider I have to follow the strong consensus.)

The trade of mathematics is like cartography. Mapmakers make maps, and they use their choice of coordinate systems. Presumably, the properly made maps will all be correct according to their coordinate systems, but they rarely will look anything like each other when you compare them. Some cover different parts of the territory. Some cover the same territory, but use different projections (the shape of Greenland is very different in a Mercator projection than it is on a globe). Some use wildly different scales and rotations.

But here's the key: there is an objective territory to which the maps refer.

None of the arguments made by the formalists are wrong. It's just that they are arguments about maps. It is not possible to conclude on the basis of the maps that the maps are all that exist.

127 posted on 12/08/2001 7:34:02 AM PST by Physicist
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