I believe in Allah and America

Wednesday November 28, 2001 | Arsalan Iftikhar

[TopQuark]

You have a good mind Illbay, you know a great majority of these people are still stuck in the dark ages That is exactly right! And thus, the problem has nothing to do with the holy books. The last and every time we in the West argued about teh purity of books, we slaughtered each other. Do not start this again.

On another occasion, I pointed out, MissAmericanPie, a few other things. The Western World committed attrocities that did not follow from the Bible. Jesus has not ordered slaughter of infidels by the crusaders or expulsion of Jews and Roma from Spain, England, and France. The Bible says nothing about the Inquisition that burned at the stake 70,000 "witches" just in one year in just one country (Holland). Nor did Jesus command the Church to have a strong opinion about the shape of the Earth. Would you agree that it would be wrong to attribure these acts to some "intrinsic viciousness" of Christians or allege that Biboe is evil?

I also mentioned that all posters such as you, who wave the Bible on all occasions, ignore an inconvenient to them fact: Turkey is predominantly Muslim, yet with separation of church and state, a strong democracy (much longer than Christian Russia, which has never had a democracy in its long history), the only European country that has never persecuted Jews (in fact, invited to come those who survived the expulsion from Spain by Isabella the Catholic in 1492), and a loyal friend of the United States. These people read the same Koran.

Incidentally, unlike many of Arab decent, Turkish Americans had no hesitation where their loyalty lied when we were attacked. Just today I discovered a letter written by President Bush and posted it here.

[BibChr]

The parrot died.

No no, no no, he didn't die... he's just restin'.

Dan

[exmarine]

There you are again. Posting more garbage.

Are you an Arafat shill?

[EclipseVI]

How do you feel about: That in nearly all middle east Muslim countries it is against the law to practice Christianity and that is punishable by death for conversion? That your religion teaches that anyone not Muslim is an infidel and is not to be treated as human? That in nearly every country with a Muslim majority there is severe persecution of non-muslims?

I don't know where you get your information on Islam but you should look for a more accurate and unbiased source.

With the exception of Saudi Arabia, there are churches and synagogues in every country and christians and jews are free to worship as they please. The Washington Post, just last week ran a piece about two Jews who stayed in Kabul, for goodness sakes.

Islam is the religion of all prophets. Muslims believe that all the prophets were sent to their respective peoples from God (Allah). They all had the same mission and message - guiding people to the right path.

The three revealed, monotheistic religions, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, go back to Abraham. The prophets of these religions were directly descended from him - Moses, Jesus and others from Isaac, but Muhammad from IsmaŒil. It was Prophet Abraham who had established the settlement which today is the city of Makkah, and with his son Ishmael built the Kaabah, which Muslims all over the world face when they pray.

Christians and Jews hold a special place in Islam. They are called the People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab), since the original Torah and Gospel were also divinely revealed and they shared in the prophetic tradition. Islamic states have nearly always shown their religious minorities tolerance and respect and those communities flourished under Islamic rule. God says:

"...[T]hose who believe (in the message of Islam), and the Jews, the Sabaeans, and the Christians - all those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and act righteously - no fear shall come upon them..." [5:69]

Setting up the Islamic state in Madinah, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) further warned:

"Whoever oppresses any Dhimmi (non-Muslim citizen of the Islamic state), I shall be his prosecutor on the Day of Judgment."

In setting up the Islamic state, Prophet Muhammad made it inclusive of the Arabian Jews and Christians. Their persons, properties, churches and synagogues were protected, freedom of worship was guaranteed, and they controlled their own community affairs with their own civil and religious laws and courts. For most of the first century of the Islamic state, in fact, the majority of the citizens were Christians, enjoying peace and liberty such as they had not had even under Christian Rome or Byzantium.

The Jews, from the very beginning in Madinah, and later everywhere else, were lifted from the burden of being clients of individual Arab tribes to being citizens of the state, thus freeing them to focus on their Jewishness. When the Islamic state expanded outside Arabia the Jews of other lands were treated for the first time as liberated citizens. Judaism flourished as never before, with Jews even serving in Muslim armies and administrations while their culture bloomed in the arts, sciences, medicine and philosophy. This knowledge they transmitted to their brethren in the hostile climate of Christian Europe. Even Jewish mysticism originated under the influence of sufism and spread to northern Europe.

When Islam reached Persia the concept of People of the Book was extended to the Zoroastrians as well. Later, when the Muslims conquered parts of India and encountered Buddhists and Hindus, who appeared to worship idols, the question was referred to the ulema (council of scholars), who judged that even they could have the same protected status as the Jews and Christians, so long as they did not fight Islam and they paid the Jizyah tax.

[Republic of Texas]

This is all just super. One problem though, it's one guy, out of the billion Muslims on Earth, (and BTW, there aren't 7 million in the US), and it's about a 6 weeks too late. The lack of articles just like this one has done as much to help me formulate my opinions on Muslims, as the actions of the terrorists. TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

[Gil4]

The Jews certainly do know the God of the Bible. It is just that they do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, which is their right.

NO! They know of Him, but they don't know him. Romans 10:1-3 (NKJV) 1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. .

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

As a Christian, I feel indebted to the Jews of old... Israel has given the world so much...and Jesus was a Jew...I stand with Israel and it's right to exist, and I have a love for all of God's people.

AMEN!!!

Read Romans 9 through 11 - God has set aside Israel temporarily because they rejected the gospel. There is still a remnant (Jewish Christians - no, that's not a contradiction)and God will finish fulfilling all of the promises He made to Israel. At the present time God deals with the people of Israel the same way as He deals with all others - on the basis of faith in Christ or the lack thereof.

Remember, God is Love!

The main characterisic of God is His holiness. All other characteristics are parts that result from His holiness - perfect wisdom, mercy, judgement, justice, love, truthfulness. Because of His perfect justice, no sin ever goes unpunished. Christ has taken the punishment for sin for all that trust in Him. (2 Cor 5:20-21, many others) The believers in OT times (those who put their trust in God and demonstrated their faith - in an imperfect fashion, just as we do - by keeping the commands of God that had been revealed up to that point) had their sins passed over by God (judgement was withheld) until Christ died on the cross to take the punishment. (Rom 3:25-26)

[RnMomof7]

chubby babies, go to zoos, get season tickets to the Chicago Bulls, go on our childrens' field trips and fix the leak in our roofs. With all the growing pains in the life that we lead as normal Americans, everyday we turn our face to Mecca to pray to what our Christian brothers call God, our Jewish sisters call Yahweh and whom we call Allah.

Nice try...you worship the moon god..your prophet was an insane man that could neithor read nor write...murder is a sacrament to you.....I don't care where you were born or how many ball games you go to you are NOT like us....

You are heathans ...500 year behind the rest of humanity ..right where your moon god needs to keep you....

[Gil4]

Maybe you can answer my question to MissAmericanPie:

I'm curious why you point out that Islam's theology doesn't hold that God is three persons with one divine nature? Are you saying that Islamic theology proves that Moslems don't worship the same God as Christians and that they are therefore destined for eternal damnation? If so, do the Jews, who also deny trinitarian theology, worship a different God from Christians, and are they therefore also destined for eternal damnation like the Moslems?

Respectfully,

The short answer is yes. The long answer (OK, not long, but longer and slightly more in depth answer) is on post 86.

[EclipseVI]

The real problem with what is said here is that Moslems say that they revere Jesus, but then they take away his sacrifice by stating that he did not die on the cross, and they put words in his mouth that say he is not God, and would never have said so. And they put him ninth on their list of holy men, giving the self-admitted rapist and pedophile Mohammed number 1 status. Thus they exclude themselves from the Heaven that Christ will rule over, and consign themselves to an eternity with Mohammed and his puppet god, Allah.

The Prophet married Aisha for the benefit of Islam and Humanity. Lets analyze:

The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:

1. To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).

2. To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.

3. To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam.

Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahi (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet, ‘He said, "I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that…" Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p.285.

Aisha was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth. In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.

Aishah lived on almost fifty years after the passing away of the Prophet. She had been his wife for a decade. Much of this time was spent in learning and acquiring knowledge of the two most important sources of God's guidance, the Quran and the Sunnah of His Prophet. Aishah was one of the three wives (the other two being Hafsa and Umm Salamah) who memorized the Revelation. Like Hafsa, she had her own script of the Quran written after the Prophet had died.

So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aishah is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurrah, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Ana ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim. Many of her transmissions pertain to some of the most intimate aspects of personal behavior which only someone in Aishah’s position could have learnt. What is most important is that her knowledge of Hadith was passed on in written form by at least three persons including her nephew Urwah who became one of the greatest scholars among the generation after the Companions. It is the claim of the Scholars of Islam that without her, half of the Ilm-I-Hadith [knowledge, understanding of the Hadith (and Islam)] would have perished.

Many of the learned companions of the Prophet and their followers benefited from Aishah's knowledge. Abu Musa al-Ashari once said: "If we companions of the Messenger of God had any difficulty on a matter, we asked Aisha about it." "Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that Abu Musa al-Ashari came to Aishah, the wife of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to her, "The disagreement of the companions in a matter which I hate to bring before you has distressed me." She said, "What is that? You did not ask your mother about it, so ask me." He said, "A man penetrates his wife, but becomes listless and does not ejaculate. "She said, "When the circumcised part passes the circumcised part ghusl is obligatory." Abu Musa added, "I shall never ask anyone about this after you." Al-Muwatta of Imam Malik Hadith 2.75

Arwa Bin Zubair says, "I did not find anyone more proficient (than Aisha ®) in the knowledge of the Holy Quran, the Commandments of Halal (lawful) and Haram (prohibited), Ilmul-Ansab and Arabic poetry. That is why, even senior companions of the Prophet used to consult Aisha ® in resolving intricate issued".Jala-ul-Afham by Ibn Qaiyem and Ibn Sa’ad, Vol.2, p.26

Abu Musa al-Ashari says: "Never had we (the companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her".Sirat-I-Aisha, on the authority of Trimidhi, pg. 163

As a teacher she had a clear and persuasive manner of speech and her power of oratory has been described in superlative terms by al-Ahnaf who said: "I have heard speeches of Abu Bakr and Umar, Uthman and Ali and the Khulafa up to this day, but I have not heard speech more persuasive and more beautiful from the mouth of any person than from the mouth of Aishah."

The Prophet said, "The superiority of 'Aisha to other ladies is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. meat and bread dish) to other meals. Many men reached the level of perfection, but no woman reached such a level except Mary, the daughter of Imran and Asia, the wife of Pharaoh." Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith, Narrated by Abu Musa Al Ashari Hadith 4.643

Musa Ibn Talha says, "I did not see anyone more eloquent than Aisha ®" Mustadrak of Hakim, Vol.4,p.11

Men and women came from far and wide to benefit from her knowledge.

Aisha’s great interest in the study of the Qur’an is understandable. She was an eye-witness to a number of revelations and had therefore a clear idea of the circumstances in which they were revealed. It was on her bed alone (and no other consort’s) that the Prophet received Wahi (Divine Revelations) several times. This helped her in interpreting the verses.

At the time of the Prophet’s death, the Prophet’s head was on her lap. It was in her quarters that the Prophet was buried.

The life of Aishah is a proof that a woman can be far more learned than men and that she can be the teacher of scholars and experts. Her life is also a proof that a woman can exert influence over men and women and provide them with inspiration and leadership. Aisha is a continuing inspiration and role model to today’s youth who are diligently searching for an example amongst the pop stars, movie actresses and sports stars.

[vikingcelt]

Why then are words such as this written in the Koran: "The resurrection of the dead will not come until the Muslims will war with the Jews and the Muslims will kill them; the trees and rocks will say, "O Muslim, O Abdullah, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." "Taste ye Jews the punishment of burning." "Oh ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends." "The most vehement of mankind in hostility are the Jews and the idolators." "Fight against such of those (Jews and Christians) until they pay for the tribute readily, being brought low." "Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skihat they may taste the torment." And on and on ad nausem. Islam is a gutter religion. The Koran is a work of pornography. Muslims only want to destroy...never build. I wish all Muslims would leave our Christian country.

[Binghamton_native]

With the exception of Saudi Arabia, there are churches and synagogues in every country and christians and jews are free to worship as they please.

Are you kidding me? Tell me about life for Christians in the Sudan; in Indonesia; in Nigeria; tell me about life for Coptic Christians in Egypt; tell me about life for Christians in some of the southern islands of the Phillipines. Your attempt to gloss this over by limiting the problem to Saudi Arabia is grossly insulting.

[BibChr]

Maybe you can answer my question to MissAmericanPie:

I'm curious why you point out that Islam's theology doesn't hold that God is three persons with one divine nature? Are you saying that Islamic theology proves that Moslems don't worship the same God as Christians and that they are therefore destined for eternal damnation? If so, do the Jews, who also deny trinitarian theology, worship a different God from Christians, and are they therefore also destined for eternal damnation like the Moslems?

That is actually THREE questions. And, sure! (c8

1. I pointed it out because the fellow who started this thread stated that "everyday we [Moslems] turn our face to Mecca to pray to what our Christian brothers call God, our Jewish sisters call Yahweh and whom we call Allah." My point was no, these are not simply interchangeable names for the same Being. In fact, that was my ONLY point, at the time. In my last posting, I expressly put other considerations aside. It's a simple matter of the Law of Non-Contradiction: A cannot be A and anti-A at the same time. Similarly, God cannot be an Islamic monad and a Biblical Trinity at the same time.
2. As a Christian, I believe Jesus when He says, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me" (John 14:6). Again, simple logic: that statement cannot both be true and untrue. There cannot both be one way to God (through personal faith in Jesus), and many ways to God, at the same time. So no, believing Jesus as I do, I do not believe that a person can know God through Jesus and through denying Jesus, as Moslems do.
3. As to Jews, my most honest and briefest answer is that, as I see the Old Testament, the problem is that those Jews today who do not acknowledge Jesus as Messiah do not believe in the Old Testament. Therein, God Himself, speaking prophetically of Messiah Jesus, said, "And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him" (Deuteronomy 18:19). That is a statement that God will judge anyone who rejects His Son, the Messiah. Jesus says, "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you — Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" (John 5:45-47). Again, Jesus confirms this when He says, "if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24). As a Christian, of course, I believe what Jesus says.

Brief answer, but I hope it helps.

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site

[TopQuark]

They know of Him, but they don't know him. At this point I resign... I am impressed with the clarity of you thinking. Just proves that, once you know the sciptures well enough to quote, no other faculties are necessary.

[Fighting Irish]

Great reply, Pie. Two things that hang them up.....the blood and the empty tomb!

[TopQuark]

I don't care where you were born or how many ball games you go to you are NOT like us....You are heathans...where your moon god needs to keep you....

Now, easy, nurse, easy...

Just put down the hatchet and tell us how you really feel about humanity.

[Patria One]

Let me help you with Sudan.. John Garang, leader of the SPLA, converted from a Dinka to a Christian. He is a self avowed Marxist trained at Ft. Benning Georgia. He is responsible for the kidnapping of 14,000 underaged boys and various attacks on aid workers and oil field workers.

[eastsider]

Thanks for the reply. For the life of me, I can't understand why so many people point out the difference between Islamic and Christian theologies who I don't see point out the same difference between Islamic and Jewish theologies. It's refreshing to hear from someone who has the courage of his convictions.

[Binghamton_native]

Even if this is true, does that justify the actions of the Muslim north against the Christian and animist south. Oh, and by the way, I forgot to mention the recent slaughter of the Protestant Christians in Pakistan, and during their worship service no less.

[eastsider]

Brief answer, but I hope it helps.

It does, and I appreciate the reply.

[Tennessee_Bob]

"Whoever oppresses any Dhimmi (non-Muslim citizen of the Islamic state), I shall be his prosecutor on the Day of Judgment."

"If any one desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost." (Surah 3:85).

Christians and Jews hold a special place in Islam.

O ye who believe take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. (Surah 5:51)

who judged that even they could have the same protected status as the Jews and Christians, so long as they did not fight Islam and they paid the Jizyah tax.

Interesting that you would bring up the Jizyah tax. Doesn't it strike you as unfair that an all encompassing and peaceful religious government would allow people to practice their religion, only if they paid a tax to do so? Why is it that this religious/political system became more and more hostile to non-Muslims as time went on? And why to these governments that follow this peaceful and all-incompassing religion insist on imprisoning (and worse) people of other religions?