First, let me state that I have no problem with your site management per se. In fact, I am in broad agreement with the management of this site in terms of banning posters for racism, kookery, etc. I would include most of Arator's crowd in that category. This is well known to those that post on the Reformation site. I have Arator on ignore. I would ban Arator. He knows that.
In fact, I have Eschoir on ignore over there. This has been posted over there. Several times. Why? Because I have come to believe that he is simply seeking attention, and really not worth the listening to because of that fact. He seems to be the foci of many of the disputes that arise on the "anti" boards. One has to ask oneself if there's a fire where a lot of smoke exists. I've found it interesting that he felt it necessary to create over 250 screen names to try and draw attention to himself. This shows the character of the man, and what he's about.
Let's face it, the guy is an underemployed lawyer. No better. No worse. I don't even trust his legal opinion on the lawsuit. If he were busy with clients, he would not post 24/7. I like him, but nevertheless, the truth must be spoken.
Having said that, I feel strongly that some sort of accounting should be made for the monies raised by Free Republic. This is ultimately best for the conservative movement which you claim to hold so dear. The conservative movement cannot get into a Clintonesque type situation in which we are not holding accountable those that represent us, whether on the net, or in political operations. Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that your refusal to account in a real way for the monies raised represent a lack of accountability that I simply am not willing to tolerate in conservative circles.
I would like to see the following accounting tools posted:
Chart of Accounts complete - specifically, monies paid to employees and representatives of Free Republic
Statement of Cash Flows
Balance Sheet
Income Statement
Specifically, I would like to see the documents that the Accountants are producing, NOT a raw posting of said documents worked up by Bob J or someone else. Why is this so hard to do? Sure, people are suing you. But these documents were not posted here prior to the lawsuit. Bob J said when I raised this issue earlier this year that I had seen them. I haven't. You know dang well that these documents are required to conduct business operations. You and I know they exist for Free Republic. Just post them. Give them to us. I posted on Reformation that the anti sites would go away if this issue could be resolved.
The lawsuit exists because you refused to quit posting full text documents. How can you admit otherwise? Your posts on this matter exist on the anti sites. Does Drudge do this? Other sites? I don't believe this constitutes "fair use," regardless of what you think.
Ultimately, this lawsuit issue will shut down Free Republic. Already your "pro bono" lawyer has agreed to 1 million dollars regarding this. I'm not a lawyer, but have worked for some of the high powered ones. Upon questioning, they think you're wrong on this issue.
The other problem I have is with your original position regarding George W. Bush and his alleged involvement in the "coke running conspiracy." It appears that you've changed your views to stay with the main ideological and political flow of the FReepers. If Bush was such a criminal, then why vote for him? Honestly, your original views on a number of issues appear to be minor league Bircher. I can understand changing views, but to this extent?
I also deeply resent some of the powers that be calling on the carpet those that ask for accountability, and the fact that one of the PTB used a vulgar word in a thread that was flushed, calling a member of this forum a C##T. If you need documentation of this, I can certainly post a link. You know who and what I'm talking about. And this person would represent themself as a fine upstanding Christian. Give me a break.
In summation, all I ask for is the accounting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. Should you do so, I will pony up $500 over the next year, well within my financial means. All else is minor, and can be easily forgotten and forgiven for the cause. I would say failure to do so ultimately hurts the conservative cause in the sense that it gives our opponents such as Eschoir cause to whine and moan. And I'm not even that conservative. My views are well known here.
Finally, will this thread be flushed? Will my account be deleted for raising these points?
In an effort to keep the thread alive, I will not post here again this evening (heck, it is almost 2am on the East Coast), but will return to answer your and others' replies later tomorrow.
I would like to see YOU banned again.
Also I do not want to see a bunch of bullshit threads and comments in threads if it is a mandatory pay site that say " I DO NOT PAY FOR THIS CRAP OR PAY TO SEE THIS KIND OF CRAP." I say do a seperate page of ad's and links to the companies we already use links for like Amazon and NR etc.., have that cover some costs and fundraising drives every 4 months/1 week out of that 4th month. That way you will cover the entire year in 3 quarters...4th month,8th, and 12th. Everyone has money coming to them in April,the summer is around the 8th and people have extra dough for vacations, and the 12th month you have Christmas. What better gift to yourself than to pay for FR?
I plan on giving my gift right around Christmas. A 2yr old and a morgatge must come first, but my visa is on standby for a nice healthy donation to ring in 2002.
no points, it was a fumble. We GAVE them money, what they do with it is their business.
Let make myself clear...take your little law crap, and shove it. I am eating little fishes like you for breakfast....
As much as I find TKEMan's pro-censorship anti-freedom views abhorant, I would never want to see him banished for them. Instead, I would like to explode them with irresistable argument, leaving their rotting carcus in public view for all to see. ;^)
Hell, the Red Cross and the United Way can't even be trusted not to cook the books and you're put out by one little 'ol website that doesn't even charge admission? What's it to you if they don't show their books? Why aren't you harassing Operation PUSH instead?
The conservative movement cannot get into a Clintonesque type situation in which we are not holding accountable those that represent us, whether on the net, or in political operations. Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that your refusal to account in a real way for the monies raised represent a lack of accountability that I simply am not willing to tolerate in conservative circles.
If JimRob kept all the money gathered from this venture and he and JohnRob used it on lavish vacations in Tahiti every year or to keep a dozen mistresses quiet, I'm frankly not bothered by it. 1) He's not supported by tax money. 2) He's not running a church. 3) He is providing a service to thousands absolutely free of charge. I'm getting more than a full return on my investment in Free Republic. What they used my money for isn't really my concern, any more than I'd be bothered with how my car mechanic spent the money I paid him to fix my car. The car is fixed. His side of the deal is honored. He's now free to use the money as he sees fit.
I would like to see the following accounting tools posted:
Chart of Accounts complete - specifically, monies paid to employees and representatives of Free Republic Statement of Cash Flows
Balance Sheet
Income Statement
Then volunteer to work for FR as an accountant. Or join the IRS and audit him (no doubt Clinton already has). While you're at it, let's see the same vigor against Operation PUSH!
Specifically, I would like to see the documents that the Accountants are producing, NOT a raw posting of said documents worked up by Bob J or someone else... I posted on Reformation that the anti sites would go away if this issue could be resolved.
Oh, yeah! All these "anti" sites don't give a whit about the POLITICS! Hell, no! They're just overwrought with concern over possible financial mismanagement! If THIS is your big gripe about FR, your site is utterly worthless! pssst! The Dept' of Education can't account for a few BILLION of our tax dollars but you're all in a dither about one little website not showing you the books. Incredible! I need a word worse than petty to describe how disproportionately irrelevent your concern is.
The lawsuit exists because you refused to quit posting full text documents. How can you admit otherwise? Your posts on this matter exist on the anti sites. Does Drudge do this? Other sites? I don't believe this constitutes "fair use," regardless of what you think.
Ah, now we get to a policy disagreement. Don't you think Jim has placed himself in enough jeopardy over this stance? He's standing by his belief. Let the courts decide if it's justified.
Ultimately, this lawsuit issue will shut down Free Republic. Already your "pro bono" lawyer has agreed to 1 million dollars regarding this. I'm not a lawyer, but have worked for some of the high powered ones. Upon questioning, they think you're wrong on this issue.
The other problem I have is with your original position regarding George W. Bush and his alleged involvement in the "coke running conspiracy." It appears that you've changed your views to stay with the main ideological and political flow of the FReepers. If Bush was such a criminal, then why vote for him? Honestly, your original views on a number of issues appear to be minor league Bircher. I can understand changing views, but to this extent?
Is this George 41's or George 43's conspiracy? Ronald Reagan was once a Democrat and a union head. Folks do change. A better question might be, in a time of war, when George 43 is our president, does it really matter what he may or may not have done over ten years ago? If there was solid proof, don't you think the media would have hit him full throttle with this back during the campaign instead of throwing out that silly DUI story? Sometimes smoke is just smoke.
In summation, all I ask for is the accounting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. Should you do so, I will pony up $500 over the next year, well within my financial means. All else is minor, and can be easily forgotten and forgiven for the cause. I would say failure to do so ultimately hurts the conservative cause in the sense that it gives our opponents such as Eschoir cause to whine and moan. And I'm not even that conservative. My views are well known here.
With all the fraud and waste in the world where people SHOULD be held accountable and aren't, this ranks very far down my list of concerns. FR *gives* away its product. It *asks* for donations. To start up a website to protest another site's use of funds is, in my mind, the height of idiocy. Is THAT all you've got? Are you SURE there's no deeper issue lurking underneath? If so, just say it and be done with it instead of hiding behind this little girl's whine about not letting you rummage through Jim's purse. Tell me you have something more valuable to do with your time than what you imply is your big concern. Else I could recommend a psychiatric visit or two for that $500 which is well within your means.
If I send $50 to FR how can I be ripped off? After all I got more than my $50 worth prior to sending the money. We each send what we think it is worth to us. I can't be ripped off because my expectations are being met. I choose its value.
Frankly I wish Jim was getting rich off this operation. He deserves to. Sadly he isn't.
Look, there isn't a soul here who doesn't believe in accountability. We understand the concept; many of us are businessmen and businesswomen of many, many years. Now, I'd be the first to agree with your point if I saw non-stop fundraising threads.....raising many tens of thousands of dollars at a pop.........and JimRob was suddenly being tooled around town in a $70K custom van and JohnRob was dashing about in the latest Mercedes convertible, racing to his massage, followed by a golf game at the toniest golf course in the region. For that matter, even if after the fundraisers, we saw little to no improvement of FR's performance as a site, no improvements in John's code, etc.; IOW, no evidence that the funds were being used to keep the site up, running, and humming along smoothly, then I'd say you may have a valid point. However, even then, the only alternative would be to..............quit donating. It would be that simple.
But that just isn't the case, my friend.
We can delve into the Inaugural Ball, if you wish. I know for a fact that it lost a fortune due to various reasons, including undercharging of attendees. Sure as hell no one got rich off of that one.
So.........tell me. This isn't about posting a chart of accounts or a balance sheet. I just don't believe that. What exactly is it about? Are you suggesting that if Jim decided to post his finances on this board for all to see that the "AF'ers" would be silenced? Sorry, my friend; that may be a well-meaning thought, but it's also hopelessly naive. The "AF'ers" tend to share a few things in common: they tend to be generally on the acerbic side (I'm being generous there), they all seem to feel that they.........individually, not the collective "they"..........should somehow, some way, for some reason be "leaders of the movement" and are frustrated as all hell that they aren't...and lastly, they're consumed with bitterness for being banned for one reason or another.
I've studied 'em enough to know that the above is a true and accurate assessment. They are not a group who, with hand over heart, decided to expose the "Great JimRob FR Fundraising Scam for the Good of the Country, by God!!!" Nothing of the sort.
I'll shut up now and await your response.
1000 Cash In Bank
1020 Accounts Receivable
1400 Office Equipment
And so on. What you are asking for is a detailed profit and loss statement, or a general ledger.
Ultimately, this lawsuit issue will shut down Free Republic. Already your "pro bono" lawyer has agreed to 1 million dollars regarding this. I'm not a lawyer, but have worked for some of the high powered ones. Upon questioning, they think you're wrong on this issue.
Dude, it is fair use. To believe otherwise is to accept the premise of LATWP - that there should be only a single electronic copy of ANY news article in existence anywhere on the planet, protected behind a pay-per-view firewall and open to Orwellian memory-hole tampering. How would you prove that LAT re-wrote an article after publication? To post the original would be a copyright violation. Get it? Once they win the lawsuit, I'm betting that microfiche storage of newspapers at university libraries goes away, and is replaced by the single online electronic copy, with the hard-copy subscription soon to follow (though the CHARGE for the hard-copy subscription won't go away - big$$$$$!!!).