Koresh was a looney, who abused men, women and children. He repeatedly broke the law (does the rule of law mean anything anymore?) and needed to be stopped.
As terrible as the Waco events where, I firmly believe that where the entire fault of Koresh and his adult followers. Further, while what happened was very unfortunate, something had to be done. It is just too bad that Koresh surrounded himself with a human shield of children.
I am all for free gun ownership, but through legal means. Your continued defense of this crazed, armed, meglomaniac pedophile undermines your positions (unless, of course, you are apologists for crazed, armed, meglomaniac pedophiles.)
IMO, you have been misled. Koresh did not put bullets, tanks, incendiary devices, and flammable gas into a church full of women and children. The US government under Clinton and Reno did.
Sounds like you have info on the laws he broke...can you name them?.....
I think you are rephrasing the fact that he was, probably, guilty of statutory rape. Anything else?
It is difficult to comprehend why you think that a military style raid was necessary to apprehend this guy for statutory rape.
Oh and by the way, that wasn't the reason for the raid in the first place. The reason for the raid had nothing whatsoever to do with your allegation that he "abused men, women and children". The charges were weapons violations; in particular, a firearms tax, if I recall correctly.
He repeatedly broke the law (does the rule of law mean anything anymore?) and needed to be stopped.
I speak only for myself, I suppose, but yes, the "rule of law" means something to me. From what I have read it may indeed be true that he broke the law - by failing to pay a certain firearms tax. I don't know what you mean by "repeatedly", in this context. I guess each day you fail to pay a firearms tax constitutes a "repeat" of the initial law-breaking? Let me know.
In any event, I still can't figure out why you think a military style raid was necessary to apprehend a guy for an (allegedly) unpaid tax bill. Why didn't they just arrest him on his jog, if he was so dangerous?
Aren't you even curious?
Also, if you care about the "rule of law" so much, presumably you are equally upset by the use of military equipment in a raid on domestic territory. That, my rule-of-law-loving friend, is against the law.
As terrible as the Waco events where, I firmly believe that where the entire fault of Koresh and his adult followers.
Is this Belief of yours based on any actual facts? Just curious.
Further, while what happened was very unfortunate, something had to be done.
Why, exactly? Be precise. Who, exactly, were those evil Davidians threatening? Who were they bothering? Whose rights were they violating or whose property were they stealing or vandalizing?
Why did "something have to be done", so urgently?
Because of a three hundred dollar tax bill?
I am all for free gun ownership, but through legal means.
As far as I know Koresh wasn't accused of having guns through "illegal means" in the first place - whatever that might mean.
He was accused of neglecting to pay a firearms tax.
Why was a military style raid necessary? If you answer no other question, please answer this one.
Your continued defense of this crazed, armed, meglomaniac pedophile undermines your positions (unless, of course, you are apologists for crazed, armed, meglomaniac pedophiles.)
I certainly don't want to be counted among Apologists For Crazed, Armed, Megalomaniacal Pedophiles, but why don't you take a step back for a second.
We are discussing whether, and why, it was OK for the government to conduct a military-style raid on a home full of dozens of citizens.
What exactly are you saying here -
The only remaining charge you have against him is "pedophile", which (I assume) is a charge you make because he seems to have slept with one or more fourteen-year-old girls.
This is called "statutory rape", there are laws against it, it does not call for sending tanks to the suspect's home, and that's not even WHY they raided the place in the first place.
Which makes it a completely bogus argument.
So tell me again, this time using facts, and without relying on irrelevant charges such as "pedophile" (which was not among the reasons or justifications for the warrant or raid):
Why was it necessary to conduct a military style raid on that home full of people?
Prove it. The government couldn't.
Let's see you justify the BATF firing many rounds on a building that contained children.
What illegal means were used by the Davidians ?
Ok, what law did he break? Looney? Or just different from say you?
I realize minds are made up on both sides of this issue and for some time now. You can't change mine nor me yours. But just to be sure you know what you are talking about, what laws did Koresh break?
Forgot what you have learned about Koresh, whether correctly or incorrectly, because it is irrelevant.
The Feds massacred men, women, and children.
You have been completely taken in. There was no crime, there were no guns, there was nothing. Nothing but an eccentric Christian teaching eccentric theology to a few monastic believers (men and women) and their children...
First of all, is there an ignoramous amongst you who can name any laws that the Davidians were breaking at the time of the raid? Reality check: not once did anyone accuse Koresh of pedophelia until after the botched raid.
Even if they did break laws, why couldn't Koresh (or anyone else accused of possesing contraband for that matter) be arrested in a professional manner while he was out jogging or going to the market?
Much of the funding for the ATF depneds on what it steals from others and by attracting favorable press on themselves. The uninformed amongst us would not know that the ATF called the local press to cover the raid so they could attract favorable press to make their case for more funding.
I guess they realized it wasn't a John Wayne movie when several of their agents left their brains on the front lawn of the Davidian complex. That's when they politely asked the media to turn thier cameras off.
SWAT teams were first designed to counter dangerous criminals who were a direct threat to those around them. We've now devolved into raiding private citizens' homes with automatic weapons to collect contriband and settle custody disputes. I hope you guys don't vote.