Posted on 11/23/2001 7:18:23 AM PST by RealGem
Can we distinguish between Islam and Christianity?
By John J. Abele
November 23, 2001
Recently, Franklin Graham, son and religious successor to the legendary Billy Graham, caused a furor when he said: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."
The politically correct and the multiculturalists became unhinged. They criticized him and everything he stands for, from every direction. Of course, relatively few people are qualified to make such comparisons, and I am not one of them. You need not be a divinity scholar, however, to see th at the actions, beliefs and proclamations of Muslims are in no way similar to the beliefs of Judeo-Christians, and particularly those of the United States.
Our nation was founded by WASPs, white, Anglo Saxon Protestants. They were initially from England, and were followed by Irish, Scots, French and others from western Europe. Their ideas were in conflict with the official religions of their country of birth, so they fled to North America where they believed they would be free to exercise their Judeo-Christian beliefs.
From the very beginning, political as well as religious leaders, spoke and wrote about the God they believed in. The United States was founded by these men, and there is abundant documentary evidence to support this
The Pilgrims were Protestants, who rejected the institutional Church of England. They believed that the worship of God must originate in the inner man, and that forms of worship prescribed by man interfered with a true relationship with God. The Separatists used the term "church" to refer to the people, the Body of Christ, not to a building or institution. As their Pastor John Robinson said, "(When two or three are) gathered in the name of Christ by a covenant made to walk in all the way of God known unto them as a church ."
"That all the People may with united Hearts on that Day express a just Sense of His unmerited Favors: --Particularly in that it hath pleased Him,by His over ruling Providence to support us in a just and necessary War for the Defense of our Rights and Liberties; ...by defeating the Councils and evil Designs of our Enemies, and giving us Victory over their Troops --and by the Continuance of that Union among these States, which by his Blessing, will be their future Strength & Glory." --Samuel Adams on behalf of the Continental Congress, November 3, 1778, calling for a day of Thanksgiving during our Revolutionary War
"The Pilgrims came to America not to accumulate riches but to worship God, and the greatest wealth they left unborn generations was their heroic example of sacrifice that their souls might be free." --Harry Moyle Tippett
The first national Thanksgiving Proclamation, issued by the revolutionary Continental Congress on November 1, 1777, expressed gratitude for the colonials' October victory over British General Burgoyne at Saratoga. It was authored by Samuel Adams, the man the other Founders turned to for reasoned statements of liberties as God's blessings, its one sentence of 360 words read in part: "Forasmuch as it is the indispensable duty of all men to adore the superintending providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with gratitude their obligation to him for benefits received...together with penitent confession of their sins, whereby they had forfeited every favor; and their humble and earnest supplications that it may please God through the merits of Jesus Christ, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of remembrance...it is therefore recommended...to set apart Thursday the eighteenth day of December next, for solemn thanksgiving and praise, that with one heart and one voice the good people may express the grateful feeling of their hearts and consecrate themselves to the service of their Divine Benefactor... acknowledging with gratitude their obligations to Him for benefits received....To prosper the means of religion, for the promotion and enlargement of that kingdom which consisteth 'inrighteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost'."
When independence from England was achieved, and a Constitution written and ratified, freedom of religion was included. It was clearly stated in the First Amendment to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
At the time the Constitution was written, I doubt that there were any people in the United States who called themselves Muslims. In fact, very few if any even knew there were such people. There were still very few until WW II, when American military men were stationed, and fought all over the globe.
After that war the influx of Muslims, Buddhists, Confucians, and a host of other people with other religions started to immigrate to the United States, in ever increasing numbers. The Constitution guaranteed their religious freedom, and slowly but surely, they started to impose.
Muslims come to the schools in the United States by tens of thousands a year. I would imagine that the number of Americans who go to an Arab country to study could be counted on the fingers of one hand. Simultaneously, they say and do things which clearly show that they, as Muslims, have an inherent hatred of America and Americans. What benefit do we derive from this exchange?
The Muslims who come to the United States as immigrants, and those who become citizens, have no intention of integrating into the existing society They demand special considerations and special privileges - and usually get what they want. Americans have been taught that to do otherwise might be considered racist, and there is nothing worse than that.
No person can live in the United States and not be constantly reminded that we were founded as a Christian nation, and we remain one. You need money to live, and the dollar bill is a constant reminder. Benjamin Franklin believed that no man could create a nation alone, but a group of men, with the help of God, could do anything. "IN GOD WE TRUST" is on our currency. The Latin above the pyramid on the dollar, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means, "God has favored our undertaking." The Latin below the pyramid, NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, means, "a new order has begun."
I have not read the Koran, and I doubt that I will, but there are enough quotes easily available to provide an overview. I think that Franklin Graham said it very well: "The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."
John 1
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
kangharue:
My knowledge of Christianity is quite extensive...and my knowledge of Islam is a lot better than most of the posters here. Stick around and watch.
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
42 And many believed on him there.
The world situation at the time of Christ pretty much excluded the possiblity of Christ leading wars. The Romans had things pretty much under control. Chirst would have been foolish to start a war against the Romans or any of their protected states. The Jews tried it a few decades later and look what happened to them.
The biblical censors probably cleansed the historical text of any really outrageous acts by Christ. The one that did get through was his attack on the buisness men in the temple. Somehow, the biblical censors managed to turn his terrorist attack of the temple business men into a rightious indignation. The theory of rightious indignation has been used by christians to justify centuries of criminal acts. The christian cults do not need any stories of war. They have rightious indignation to cover anything and everything.
kangharue:
It's the Holy Spirit's view first huh? Hello? Earth to Kevin. That's unprovable.
Kevin:
whose descendents today forbid Christians to openly worship in the Islamic countries and religiously justify the murder of Muslim men and women who convert to Christianity.
kangharue:
You may not like their theology or the way of doing things...but please, be intellectually honest enough to admit that only a FEW Islamic countries do this...most notably Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.
kangharue:
Finally, a sane response. Exactly. Making sweeping judgements without knowing your subject is the mark of a fool.
There have been Jews who have said as much, although this hasn't mattered because Jews have seldom been in the position of rulers. So I guess the main quesyion os whether Islam is willing to tolerate Christian citizens of their country as we tolerate Islamic citizens of ours. You can tell a lot about people by the way they treat their guests and newcomers.
I will drink to that!
1. He's telling the truth.
2. He's deluded and talking non-sense.
3. He's deliberately lying.
He's either telling the truth, telling a lie, or He's delusional-- which is it?
kangharue:
Finally someone trots out a variation of the lame CS Lewis argument. The above is what's known as a false dilemma, or in this case, a false trilemma. There are of course other possibilities but the false trilemma fallacy dismisses them. One possibility is that Jesus never said those words.
The Dinner Table - [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Jesus did not say he was the son of god.
Now you can never again use "honestly" in that declaration.
Please exactly quote from the bible where Jesus said "I am the son of god."
You believe it. you should be able to verify it.
I also know that you can be arrested (at minimum) or Killed for wearing a cross in Sudan, Libya, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, United Arab Emirates, Uganda, Togo, Burkina Faso and Yemen
That quote does not say that Jesus said the he, himself, was that son of god.
kangharue:
Oh..please show me where I said that.
Miss:
If you want to drag the Jews into a debate about Muslims, you make me very suspecious then yes they too are anti-Christ,
kangharue:
Thanks for admitting that.
Miss:
Only some Muslims are pro-active because of the need to promote the will of some weak god that has no power of his own over mankind, and a majority of moderate Muslims seem loath to be critical of their violent brothers who live trapped in terror of a god that commands them to violence and inhuman obedience, Ben Ladin himself is quivering in a cave somewhere in terror of meeting that afterlife and that god.
kangharue:
I see...and how did you come to know all of this?
Miss:
Are you feigning ignorance of all the proof and dicussion that has been offered on this forum in thread after thread for two months? Are you blind to what is going on in the world around you in radical Muslim nations and their treatment of all other religions?
kangharue:
Proof of what? Most people here are ignorant of what they speak. You want to look at the actions that people do in the name of something..and tarnish the something. I'm talking about finding out if these people are indeed following the something...correctly. Get it?
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