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Clergyman Calls for Christmas Ban.
BBC ^ | 11/23/01

Posted on 11/23/2001 7:13:01 AM PST by marshmallow

A clergyman has called for Christmas to be cancelled because commercialism has "hijacked" the spiritual meaning. The Rev Martin Swan, from Greater Manchester, said the festive season was a time of "madness" that brought sadness and misery.

He called on people to stop using Christmas as an excuse for a party.

Rev Swan, of Trinity Methodist Church in Heywood, said: "It's about time we stopped now and took a look at what we are doing.

"The Samaritans tell us that over the Christmas period more people attempt suicide than at any other time, more families break up, there are more arguments and people can't stand it.

"There's so much pressure to conform to this mystical day.

"Let's not pretend we are doing it for the birth of God's son. It's just a party. "I don't want Christ's name being associated with so much harm and hardship to people. "I'm not going to use Christmas as an excuse for a party. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have a party or enjoy ourselves or celebrate but let's not pretend we are doing it under the name of God, because I think that's a travesty."

Pagan festival

Rev Swan also criticised other churches across the country for jumping on the bandwagon. "There are more and more church fairs in October these days. "It's time to stop and say 'No'. What are we actually doing here? What are we saying? It's madness." He added: "The Father Christmas aspect of Christmas has nothing to do with Christians.

"Christmas Day was borrowed by the Christians from the pagan festival to celebrate the birth of Christ. But we can give it back. "Christmas is putting a lot of pressure on people and I'm saying, as a Christian festival, do we want to be associated with that?"

His remarks come as the Manchester diocese of the Church of England prepares for an advertising campaign designed to encourage more people back into church. The £200,000 campaign involving 150 churches will be screened in the area from Monday and feature Olympic medallist Diane Modahl and Manchester City soccer manager Kevin Keegan. A spokesman for Manchester diocese said: "Rather than be anti-Christmas I would rather say let's look at the positive side of it.

"I'm not up for cancelling it, but Christmas in three words is not Marks and Spencer."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; christianlist; michaeldobbs
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1 posted on 11/23/2001 7:13:01 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: *Christian_list; *Catholic_list; *Religion
bimp
2 posted on 11/23/2001 7:16:13 AM PST by Khepera
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To: marshmallow
Amen
3 posted on 11/23/2001 7:17:55 AM PST by gulliver
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To: marshmallow
FIY, I think the original Massachusetts Bay Colony levied a 20-pence fine on anyone found to be celebrating Christmas.
4 posted on 11/23/2001 7:21:21 AM PST by PoorMuttly
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To: marshmallow
Rev Swan, of Trinity Methodist Church in Heywood, said: "It's about time we stopped now and took a look at what we are doing.

While I would agree with the Rev's sentiment here, he's got the wrong solution. While many will be caught up in commercialism, God will look upon the heart of those who celebrate the birth of His Christ in Spirit and in Truth. We can't expect the unbelieving world to discern between the two.

5 posted on 11/23/2001 7:22:19 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
Agreed. He's throwing out the baby with the bath water.
6 posted on 11/23/2001 7:25:31 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: anniegetyourgun
I will send a $10,000 check to the first person who finds a Biblical reference to Christmas or celebrating the day of the birth of His son.

Kudos to Rev Swan for being able to think out of the box, but he's looking at the symptoms, not the disease.

There is no Biblical basis for Christmas.

Or Easter for that matter.

7 posted on 11/23/2001 7:27:41 AM PST by Eccl 10:2
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To: PoorMuttly; BRL
i think that massachusets bay colony levied a 20 pence fine on anyone caught celebrating christmas

even back then the liberal state of massachusets was looking for ways to fund its liberal policies. hard to turn back 400 years of idiotic tradition.

8 posted on 11/23/2001 7:36:13 AM PST by mlocher
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To: marshmallow
In a similar vein, I've said for years that if this "separation of church and state" that the liberals hold so sacred was consistent, then state and federal employees should be forced to treat Thanksgiving and Christmas like any other day of the year - NOT as official holidays. Imagine the howls from the ACLU if these two holidays hadn't already existed and some Republican had proposed them. What "dangerous and divisive" meaning might they see in the word "Thanksgiving" - thanks to whom, they'd ask? They'd call it a stealth campaign to force religion down the throats of non-Christians. And Christmas? Read the label! There's no way the libs would have allowed this. What about those who celebrate Hannukah? What about Kwanzaa? Christmas would be illegal the minute somebody like Jerry Falwell endorsed the idea.

Therefore, it should be illegal for state and federal workers to get Christmas and Thanksgiving off. Let them live by their own twisted government logic while the private sector would be free to recognize these holidays as they saw fit. This ban might include government schools as well - THEN this liberal interpretation of "separation of church and state" could have the true meaning it deserves.

9 posted on 11/23/2001 7:36:22 AM PST by Tall_Texan
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To: marshmallow
I hate to admit it, but I agree with this guy. The whole month of December has become one of unremitting misery. I begin dreading it as soon as the last one is over.

One of the worst aspects of it is those stupid decorations. How many guys out there have a falling-off-the-ladder-or-roof story?

I treated my first for this season in the er yesterday. And then you have to take the things back down. Plus, it is just about impossible to find the specific bulb you need to replace your particular brands.

Then there are all the gifts and all the money it takes. How long does it take you to pay off your credit cards each year? And then you can't just throw away all those annoying doo-dads, but you have to clutter up the house and display them for a month before you can throw them away. I've taken to accidently stepping on them at night to speed up the process.

Even worse, you have to pretend to like all your neighbors, even the one whose dog loves to crap on your front porch. It really irks me to feel pressure to wave nicely at them when I really want to wave my middle finger like usual.

Christmas day itself is awful with all the garbage generated from opening the gifts. I remember one Christmas eve when three adults, two who were professional mechanics/engineers spent 6 hours assembling a barbie house.

And then, just when you can sit down and rest, the relatives start showing up with their kids and their presents - as if I really want them riding around my music room on their new tricycles with horns.

I always try to work an er shift that day so I don't have to be home. I find it much more peaceful.

10 posted on 11/23/2001 7:39:03 AM PST by baxter999
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To: Eccl 10:2
i will send a $10,000 check to anyone who can find a reference to christmas or celebrating the birth of his son in the bible

read the christmas story in the gospels. three wise men came and brought frankensens, myrrh and gold as gifts to celebrate the first christmas.

you may send the check to the christian charity of your choice in my name.

thanks

11 posted on 11/23/2001 7:39:16 AM PST by mlocher
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To: Eccl 10:2
If Easter is intended to celebrate the resurrection of Christ, I would say it has a Biblical basis even if the word itself is not used in Scripture (neither is the word "Trinity" for that matter - do you disregard that?).

If one looks at Scripture, one could find Jesus alluding to his blood and body as sacraments to be shared whenever two or more are gathered in His name. Easter is actually Communion on a large scale. "Do this in remembrance of Me", Jesus said. So one could argue it does have a Biblical foundation.

But it is fun to get people to thumb through their Bibles looking for old bromides like "God helps those who help themselves" and "Cleanliness is next to godliness." It's good for people to know what actually is and isn't in Scripture. It can be quite enlightening.

12 posted on 11/23/2001 7:46:18 AM PST by Tall_Texan
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To: Eccl 10:2
"After coming into the house they saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh." Matt. 2:11

Sounds like a celebration of the birth of the Son to me. I for one will continue to rejoice over the One who has come to save His people from their sin - God With Us.

13 posted on 11/23/2001 7:52:08 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: marshmallow
I like this guy's thinking. Christmas is a paganized, commercial greedfest. Count how many times you hear Christ's name mentioned this season.
14 posted on 11/23/2001 7:53:35 AM PST by IronJack
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To: mlocher
While this is a nice Biblical story, there is nothing in there that says we should do this every year, on a specific day, in remembrance of Jesus.

Sorry. Thanks for playing our game. We have wonderful parting gifts for you.

15 posted on 11/23/2001 7:53:48 AM PST by Eccl 10:2
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To: Tall_Texan
I don't think of Thanksgiving as a religious holiday -- at least not associated with any particular religion. It's really a more secular, generalized, unfocused, spririt of thankfulness.

As for Christmas, it's pretty well established that Jesus was not born in December. So I think that Christians should revise their calendar to adopt a more realistic date for celebrating Christ's birh, and that Christmas should go back to being Saturnalia or Mid-Winter Festival.

16 posted on 11/23/2001 7:54:54 AM PST by Lessismore
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To: Eccl 10:2; BRL
we have wonderful parting gifts for you

oh joy, a ouji board, vacuum cleaner, crystal ball, deck of taro cards and a pair of stilts. just what i always wanted and needed!

17 posted on 11/23/2001 7:59:59 AM PST by mlocher
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To: marshmallow
Come take a look at all the legalists who would come to put us under their law. And all because there are pagans who choose to pervert a celebration of the birth of Christ. It seems many here are so fixated on the world (which will always make a mockery of Christ) that they have forgotten who the holiday points to. Spiritual paralysis (dumping Christmas) because of what pagans do isn't my idea of a solution.
18 posted on 11/23/2001 8:02:05 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: Eccl 10:2
There is no Biblical basis for Christmas. Or Easter for that matter.

Must there be biblical basis for us to celebrate these joyous events?

19 posted on 11/23/2001 8:03:24 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: Lessismore
As for Christmas, it's pretty well established that Jesus was not born in December. So I think that Christians should revise their calendar to adopt a more realistic date for celebrating Christ's birh, and that Christmas should go back to being Saturnalia or Mid-Winter Festival.

I'm with you, we can have a Santa Claus day and reserve celebrating the joy of the savior's birth for it's own day.

20 posted on 11/23/2001 8:06:00 AM PST by Protagoras
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