Posted on 11/19/2001 3:13:11 PM PST by PJ-Comix
False. Chick's tracts present the old sin nature of man which will not have a relationship with a perfect God without a Perfect Sacrificial Lamb as atonement for sin. Many who are scarred in sin, may not recognize they are sinful if they don't have faith in Him.
I happen to be a born again Christian. Comparing the Dursleys to "fundamentalist Christians" is just such a load of crap.
The ignorance and stupidity of statements like that is more of a threat than Harry Potter will ever be.
BTW - saw the movie last night. Fabulous!
The correct track to take is in only one direction and simple to follow although there probably will be many temptations, scarring and habits which will encroach upon thoughts every step of the way by your own will.
The trick more powerful than any craft, is to place all faith in Him, the Lord Christ Jesus as a Savior for any faults or infractions you may have ever committed or were tempted to commit from having a sincere relationship with the one and only true God.
No glory is due any other except by His will. Best of luck and I hope to meet you with us both following His will someday.
The same posters who feign innocence and alternative points of view also adamently condemn Jack Chick as heinous, but admire the Potter series.
Obviously, their picture isn't square.
Children can distinguish between fantasy and reality, between false myths and the True Myth, the Great Story of which all other stories are but pale reflections.
Is science fiction also on your 'road to hell' list? Should I read nothing but history and biographies? I can't help thinking that God made us in such a way that, for some of us, fantastic stories touch a note deep within us - what Lewis was talking about in 'Surprised by Joy'.
"Good post. Interesting how previous discussions here on Potter claimed kids would never be tempted by sorcery or witchcraft from watching the movie, yet look at the quotes.
The same posters who feign innocence and alternative points of view also adamently condemn Jack Chick as heinous, but admire the Potter series.
Obviously, their picture isn't square."
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
Sorry, had to get that out so I could speak coherently. ;)
I will guarantee you some kids want to do something evil using magic after watching Harry Potter. I will guarantee that most of them wanted to do something evil not using magic before they saw Harry Potter.
I will guarantee that some kids want to help someone and be a good friend after watching Harry Potter. I will guarantee most of them wanted to help someone and be a good friend after watching Harry Potter.
I will guarantee some kids wanted to choke people using the force like Darth Vader did in Star Wars. I will guarantee that most of them wanted to choke someone or cause violence to someone before Star Wars.
I will guarantee some kids wanted to get in touch with something greater than themselves (The Force) after watching Star Wars. I will guarantee most of them wanted to get in touch with something greater than themselves before they saw Star Wars.
I will guarantee some people wanted to go out and blow up abortion clinics after reading the Bible. I will guarantee most of them had violent, hateful tendencies before they read the Bible.
I will guarantee some people wanted to do good for mankind in the name of God after reading the Bible. I will guarantee that most of them wanted to do good for mankind and something greater than themselves before they read the Bible.
Anyway... perhaps you can see what I'm getting at. Those quotes may or may not be real... but for each quote directed in the anti-Harry Potter direction... I can probably find thousands in the pro-Harry Potter as a good role model deirection.
Either way... I knew by a relatively young age (before I started attending school) the basic difference between right and wrong, good and evil, fantasy and reality. Using this, I was able to watch and read stories as I grew up... and they didn't harm me and turn me into an evil person. I took what was good out of them, the moral lessons that were taught, and used it as a growing experience.
If something like Harry Potter actually causes someone a few years down the road to be an "evil" person, then I strongly suggest looking into how they were raised, and how they had been instilled with values. Thanks goodness my parents did a good job, so I didn't have to have everything censored and spoon fed to me, my parents gave me a foundation, then put some TRUST into my ability to reason on my own.
Having said all this, and I did apparently write alot, I wish I wouldn't have. This isn't even really a Harry Potter conversation... it is for the most part a Christian vs. non-Christian argument, or at least a fundamentalist Christian vs. non-fundamentalist Christian argument. And we all know how quickly those arguments get worked out. :P About 2000 years and counting!
The problem, obviously, is that magic could be used to control people, not just nature. But so can technology. A nuke is much more powerful that any spell in HP. A martial arts expert could probably beat up any wizard. Propaganda is more effective at shaping people's beliefs than any potion. Still, magic would certainly divide people into two classes, possibly hostile to each other. Could wizards control people's minds? Would they want to go into politics? Would they be a clan looking out for their interests without regard for anyone else's?
Now, the (very) religious fellows who do not like HP have a point. What, for example, do you think of someone like John Edward, the "crossing-over" guy? How creepy! To think that ghosts of dead people follow us around! Why are they here? Have they nothing better to do? Aren't they supposed to be with God or something? How dare they bother the living! Is that the fate one wants for oneself? As a ghost I'd drink myself to death if ghosts could drink and weren't already dead.
Oh--and I do believe in Santa Claus.
It is comforting to know that 100,000,000 kids in America want to become witches and warlocks. It is so much better than them wanting to grow up to be men and women of God. Whew! I was really getting worried!
A story of Saul (the OT king) consulting with one, which cost him the great displeasure of the Lord, his position as king, and his life, comes to mind. There is also a NT story of some sort of necromancer trying to get Paul's 'secrets' so the necromancer could learn Paul's 'magic', as it were. Paul (the apostle) severely rebuked this individual.
I barely register on the Christian radar screen, but I like this verse:
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not unto your own understanding, but acknowledge Him in all your ways, and He shall direct your path."
And this is a good one too:
"Thy word, O Lord, have I hid in my heart, that I might not sin against thee"
Not much there about relying on magic and witchcraft the way I see it.
In 1950 it was C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia, and the American struggle against communism. Today it is homosexual marriages, 40,000,000 abortions (and counting), a nation under seige by some sort of war (one I am still trying to figure out what it is), a socialist education establisment and government, and Rowling's Harry Potter.
It seems to me that Potter fits into this generational paradigm quite nicely. I prefer the spirit of America as it was and not as it is. I do not care if 6 billion people are praising HP. Considering the day and age we live in, not to mention the specific content, this nominal Christian has at least enough sense to still see the difference between what is good and evil. People that miss that are blind, and lack discernment. But then that is their thing. It is unfortunate that today we live in an age where, unlike 45 years ago, the ability to discern good from evil has collapsed, like so many other baraometers of morality.
But hey, whose counting, right? Stocks are up, rates are down. As long as my god fills up my bank account, I am going to see if I can't cast a spell on that voluptuous blonde over there.
Oh--and I do believe in Santa Claus.
Uh, whatever. For your further enlightenment, the spelling is "grammar".
Very ironic statement. Hopefully one day you'll learn what the truly important things in life are and will learn to tell fantasy from reality.
Rather, we dispute his interpretation of the intent & meaning of the stories.
"Harry Potter,"--much like "Star Wars,"--lucidly demonstrates the Evil of "The Dark Side of 'The Force!'"
Both stories are Fantasies--clearly labled as such!
Both stories CLEARLY DEMONSTRATE that "Evil" is seductive, possibly profitable in the short term, but, ultimately, a horrifically destructive force.
Both stories are delightful, wonderfully written Morality Plays. Most children understand this fact well.
Apparently, Mr Chick & his supporters give Parents & their kids little credit for Orientation to the World they dwell in, or ability to distinguish Fantasy from Reality!
Fortunately, he underestimates ALL of us......
Doc
In different threads, the question tends to be asked of Christians, why is Harry Potter so evil and Tolkien wonderful. Actually, some Christians are (to my view) mindlessly dismissive and hostile to Tolkien as well.
From my perspective, Potter glorifies, exalts, focuses on, engenders attraction to, fascination with witchcraft, spells etc. which are clearly forbidden human glorifying power grabbing activities God has very strong feelings and attitudes about as repeatedly mentioned in the Old Testament.
The quotes above illustrate such an attraction to such activities. The author may well have incredible things to answer for if, predictably, millions of youth become demon possessed as a function of the Potter stuff.
God is hostile to such activities because they avoid coming to God for solutions to problems. It's a way of saying "Up yours, God, I'll do my own thing, get my own power and solve my own problems without you! Harumph!"
Actually, demons commonly give illusions of increasing an individual's power while all the while tightening their grip on the individual to the individual's eventual destruction. These creatures are not harmless pussycats and friendly buddies. They are assistants to the father of lies and the ultimate Dr Death. They are hell-bent on destroying as much of God's ultimate creation and on messing up as many lives as possible as a way of satan getting vengeance back at God for being tossed out of Heaven.
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Tolkien, on the other hand takes a genre of British history and illustrates timeless truths about good and evil. Gandalf is clearly tied into and derives his power from Good and Righteousness. He does it selflessly. Gandalf's efforts are sacrificial, life giving, life enhancing, protective. The selfishness, self-serving--especially needlessly at others' expense is absent.
Some believers may rabidly rail at the fact that he's still a wizard. I understand their perspective but I think they overreact. Gandalf is clearly not deriving his power from The Dark Lord. I wish Tolkien had used another label for him but given the setting and genre he chose to write in, it's an understandable choice.
In Potter, the incantations, spell casting etc. are very central parts of the whole thing. In Tolkien, supernatural power derived from and in behalf of good is much more incidental.
Potter makes Jr gods out of youth via satanic activities, essentially. He muddies seductively the issues and characteristics of good and evil. Tolkien highlights the differences between good and evil.
To avoid going on and on and ever on, I'll assume that's enough of a comment and shut-up.
Notice the little blurb on the bottom by none other than another literary giant, Tim LaHaye, author/entrepreneur of the "Left Behind" series of best-selling pulp fiction. LaHaye says, "This video clears up many misunderstandings...must viewing for those concerned about the growing interest of Witchcraft." (with a capital "W")
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