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Newly Ordained, Popular Rochester Priestess Says Her First "Mass"
www.rochesternews.com ^

Posted on 11/19/2001 6:09:34 AM PST by Notwithstanding

In 1998, Ramerman and two priests, the Rev. James Callan and the Rev. Enrique Cadena, as well as many parishioners, split from Corpus Christi in Rochester. It resulted in the formation of Spiritus Christi, a 1,500-person congregation independent of the diocese that celebrates Sunday Mass at Hochstein Music School downtown. Ramerman's first Mass as a priest is 8 a.m. today. While she is considered an Old Catholic priest, Spiritus Christi remains an independent church. The auburn-haired mother of three now goes by the title of the Rev. Mary Ramerman. Parishioners need not call her "father," the traditional name associated with Roman Catholic priests. Rather, just call her "Mary," she said.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Diddle E. Squat
As a woman who pretends to the ordained preisthood she is thus a priestess. Ordained Catholic priests are by definition male.
22 posted on 11/19/2001 6:43:12 AM PST by Notwithstanding
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To: RnMomof7; ctdonath2
FYI ping
23 posted on 11/19/2001 6:46:16 AM PST by Benson_Carter
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To: Notwithstanding
This reminds me when my sister as a little girl would play mass and use cherioes for communion.
24 posted on 11/19/2001 6:47:49 AM PST by MagnusMat
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To: Notwithstanding
Yeah, the high priestess with the least-est!!
25 posted on 11/19/2001 6:47:53 AM PST by 1 FELLOW FREEPER
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To: JMJ333
I'm not up on my RomanCatholic Theology, so perhaps you or any other RC can explain why a woman priest is so wrong to you. This isn't a loaded question. I'm genuinly curious. Is it Biblically/theologically based, or more of a tradition.
26 posted on 11/19/2001 6:48:01 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: verity
The Spanish Inquistion?!?!

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!

27 posted on 11/19/2001 6:49:26 AM PST by realpatriot71
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To: Notwithstanding
Why doesn't she just become Episcopalian? The masses are almost identical. If you don't like the Catholic church for the woman priest reason thats a perfect alternative. These people are just trouble makers. The article says she is a mother of three, so is she still married? This is a farce, she has no legitamacy as a Catholic priest regardless of who ordained her.
28 posted on 11/19/2001 6:53:55 AM PST by culpeper
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To: Notwithstanding
1 Corinthians 14: 34

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

I guess this scripture no longer applies.

29 posted on 11/19/2001 6:57:55 AM PST by wai-ming
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To: AmericaUnited
Do Catholics jump into all of the protestant threads criticizing the infalability of the three fat guys who convene in your chuch basement and pass judgement on the morals and decide the fate of your congregation? You protestant zealots who find it necessary to jump in and condemn your fellow Christians at every opportunity live in glass houses. But, to tell the truth, nobody cares enough to bother to throw stones.
30 posted on 11/19/2001 6:58:24 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: Notwithstanding
To the Rochester diocese and Vatican, Ramerman's ordination represented nothing more than the ordination of a minister in a breakaway Protestant church.

Amen.
31 posted on 11/19/2001 7:01:31 AM PST by eastsider
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To: realpatriot71
Priestly ordination, which hands on the office entrusted by Christ to his Apostles of teaching, sanctifying and governing the faithful, has in the Catholic Church from the beginning always been reserved to men alone. This isn't a slight to women, as we play a very big, but different, role in our church.

The Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles attest that this call was made in accordance with God's eternal plan; Christ chose those whom he willed (Mk 3:13-14; Jn 6:70), and he did so in union with the Father, "through the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:2), after having spent the night in prayer (cf. Lk 6:12). Therefore, in granting admission to the ministerial priesthood, the Church has always acknowledged as a perennial norm her Lord's way of acting in choosing the twelve men whom he made the foundation of his Church ( Rv 21:14).

These men did not in fact receive only a function which could thereafter be exercised by any member of the Church; rather they were specifically and intimately associated in the mission of the Incarnate Word himself (Mt 10:1, 7-8; 28:16-20; Mk 3:13-16; 16:14-15). The Apostles did the same when they chose fellow workers who would succeed them in their ministry. Also included in this choice were those who, throughout the time of the Church, would carry on the Apostles' mission of representing Christ the Lord and Redeemer.

Furthermore, the fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the Apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as discrimination against them. Rather, it is to be seen as the faithful observance of a plan to be ascribed to the wisdom of the Lord.

32 posted on 11/19/2001 7:01:37 AM PST by JMJ333
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To: Harrison Bergeron
*Applauding*
33 posted on 11/19/2001 7:02:17 AM PST by LisaAnne
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To: realpatriot71
I am an ex-Catholic and have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church. I do not believe in all the tenements of the faith, so I left.

I can't see calling yourself a Catholic if you don't abide by the faith. The Catholic Church actually has high respect for women. They place Mary on a very high plane as noted by the "Feast of the Assumption." They believe that the priest should be a man. I certainly prefer this too.

34 posted on 11/19/2001 7:02:38 AM PST by FR_addict
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To: realpatriot71
Some things have always been understood from the time of the Apostles. Some of these things are not in Scripture, yet are part of the faith. One big example that might surpriise you: the Trinity is nowhere in the Bible, but it was a doctrine of the Church from the very beginning. Another is the all-male priesthood. Jesus did not choose women (though he consistently ignored cultural norms, broke taboos and took a lot of heat for it including his crucifixion - yet he did not break the taboo about calling women as leaders - out of fear? - hardly plausible). That no Christians ordained women as priests for 1980 years is not some little thing.

This loing standing tradition is grounded in various valid rationales, but the one that perhaps makes the most sense to modern sensibilities is as follows: The Church sees the priest as the person of Christ (persona Christi) such that when he says Mass it is the same as if Jesus was actually present like at the Last Supper. The Church sees Christ's maleness is integral to Who He is. God incarnated as a male for a reason - God's knows why - and we ought not dismiss this fact of history. Maleness is thus part of Who Jesus is. And the person who stands "in persona Christi" (the priest)must likewise be male. Christ's humanity is not just a small thing. It is HUGE! And if it is huge, then the details of his human existence are not minor. Does any of this make sense to you?

35 posted on 11/19/2001 7:03:32 AM PST by Notwithstanding
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To: wai-ming
Wait there's more... 1 Corinthians 14:35

And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

This sounds more like Islam than (modern) Christianity.

36 posted on 11/19/2001 7:03:35 AM PST by wai-ming
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To: patent
It's a little difficult for this Lutheran to unravel all the facts. I noticed one thing. Father Mary was already performing pastoral acts before she left to become a priest on her own.

This incrementalism is happening all over among the male-only clergy denominations. Like the Church of Rome, these denominations (WELS, LCMS, ELS, etc) begin certain appeasement measures. Women are first put on committees. Then they are given limited roles in leading worship. Women lectors. Women communion assistants. (My brother's Roman Catholic congregation had a large group of women who assisted in communion distribution. I do not believe any were men.) The pastor is assisted by a woman during certain parts of the worship service.

Then the agitation begins in earnest. The women are already installed in positions of power. The aggressive women roll over the feminine members. Men quake. Why can't women preach every now and then? Well, OK. The LCMS featured the worst ELCA woman pastor (pro-abortion, pro-lesbian) preaching in one of their prominent pulpits. Oh, the church was disciplined. They probably had their supply of AAL napkins suspended for a month.

So I am saying that all the male clergy denominations are ripe for a fall into complete and utter feminist radicalism by their half-way measures. Not many of these denominations are left. I think the Church of Rome will be ripped up by it as well.

I saw it develop in the liberal Lutheran Church in America. What many people do not anticipate is this - that women clergy will network and serve as shock-troops for abortion on demand and homosexual ordination. The degenerate successor to the LCA, the ECLA, pays for abortions for any reason under their denominational health plan.

37 posted on 11/19/2001 7:04:31 AM PST by Chemnitz
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To: wai-ming
See post 32, and quit comparing Catholicism to Islam before you lose all credibility on this thread.
38 posted on 11/19/2001 7:06:17 AM PST by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
I said nothing about Catholicism.

Just wondering why the Bible says what it says. Maybe it needs to be upgraded after all these years.

39 posted on 11/19/2001 7:09:25 AM PST by wai-ming
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To: Notwithstanding
The USA is a polity that allows for freedom of religion. That means that this woman and her parishioners are perfectly free as a civil matter to start her own religion. Likewise, those of us who believe in the Catholic faith whole and entire handed down from the apostles are also free to practice in accordance with our laws and traditions. At least she had the decency to leave the church she disagreed with, unlike many dissidents who don't believe in what the Catholic church teaches but who remain in the Church and insist that God's revelation must be changed to suit them.
40 posted on 11/19/2001 7:11:48 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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