Posted on 11/18/2001 1:38:32 PM PST by codebreaker
A leading Muslim cleric Shaykh Hisham Kabbani, founder of the Islamic Supreme Council of America (ISCA), insists bin Ladens network has bought more than 20 nuclear warheads carried in suitcases.
In 1999 Kabbani first warned the U.S. State Department of bin Laden's impending terrorism.
He told the U.S. Government bin Laden was training suicide bombers in Afghanistan ready to move to any part of the world.
Kabbani said the nuclear weapons, sometimes referred to as "suitcase bombs", were sold by the Russian mafia.
The enemy is not a computer program, with a completely predictable outcome presuming the variables and input data are known.The wisest words spoken on this thread. I'd bet several attempts to take down aircraft by missiles, bombs, and hijack have come and gone without public knowledge. I'd bet we have disrupted plots by detaining people on immigration charges, but don't know what the plots are. The fact his 9/11 plot succeeded may have surprised bin Laden as much as it surprised us. At this point we have to guard against everything from Smallpox that might kill millions to a prosiac baggage bomb on a plane.
"What kills the "suitcase" models fast is the tritium needed to augment such a small mass of fissionable material. Tritium decays into helium-3 with a 12-year half-life, which means that after a few months there is a significant helium-3 contamination. Helium-3 eats up the neutrons needed to start a chain reaction. No periodic replenishment with new tritium, no big boom."
rearrange sock drawer
clean under fridge
Tell Muslim Cleric that he's full of it and that we're calling his bluff and that, just for fun, we're gonna rearrange his face for wasting our time telling stupid stories he can't back up.
take out garbage
do laundry...
"Since then, I've heard very different depictions of the capabilities of the so-called suitcase nuke."
I suspect the amount of damage would depend on where it was placed, at what altitude, and what the surrounding buildings etc. were made of.
That has the advantage of explaining why there was one big attack with little (if the anthrax mailings are his work) or no (if not) followup.
Can I get a guest spot on your show?
This "story" is OLD -- it's from 1999 when Kabbani testified to the US State Department. Other American Muslim organizations went ballistic about his testimony, which was highly critical of radical extreme Islamism and of Wahabbi mosques in the USA.
Now, do realize, I am NOT "defending" anyone, and I am NOT arguing with you -- however, since you wondered if he was seeking speakers' fees -- I thought you might like to read the following, which is only one of many links.
Kabbani received many death threats and harrassment and was protected by the FBI. It was way back then that he spoke about the suitcase nukes. Maybe he's spoken many times about them, but this is an old one.
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Kabbani Affair
Kabbani's "Islamic Supreme Council" Issues Alert and Analysis on National American Muslim Organization's Statement
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The Islamic Supreme Council of America, one of the many organizations headed by Naqshbandi Sufi Sheikh Hisham Kabbani, issued today, and loaded on their website, ISLAMIC SUPREME COUNCIL two statements in reply to national Muslim American organizations concerns.
In the Media Alert, titled, "National Muslim organizations incite modern day lynch mob," it accuses CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, and six other American (American is put in quotes in ISCA's release) Muslim organizations of false allegations and of "creating hysteria amongst American Muslims." ISCA claims it received "death threats", "harassment", and warns of "acts of discrimination" against its organization and associates.
ISCA quotes its General Secretary, Mrs Hedieh Midahmadi, as saying that the American Muslim statement against ISCA is a "carefully orchestrated and calculated plot to intimidate Shaykh Kabbani into retracting statements [and] only goes to prove the unwillingness to tolerate differences of opinion and belief."
The organization quotes from recent events in Uzbekistan in which there was a suicide attempt against the president of the Central Asian nation as example of the "modern day witch hunt" taking place throughout the world, "including the West". [1]
ISCA adds that the seven American organizations (now eight, if one includes Ministry of W. Deen Mohammed, the largest Afro-American Muslim organization) have "instigated the vicious attacks and conspired a world-wide campaign against traditional Islam."
Abul Hasan, in an article circulated on March 2, 1999, wrote, "In a striking development today, the Ministry of Imam Warith Deen Muhammad endorsed the joint statement by eight other national Muslim organizations condemning Mr. Hisham Kabbani's accusations that extremism in the Muslim community constituted a danger to US national security. ... Interestingly, only two months ago, a Kabbani spokesperson claimed in a statement posted on Usenet and various e-lists that W.D. Muhammad had 'taken initiation into the Naqshbandi way' (a claim that W.D. Muhammad denies)." [2]
As the war for what "traditional Islam" stands for intensifies in this part of the world, rivals of the Sufi organization have already launched a fully-loaded website at http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/8841/ the most salient of which is "The Naqshbandi Octopus."
The full-text of the "Media Alert", loaded this morning, is available at the ISCA site.
The analysis of the joint statement by national Muslim organizations (the first 5 lines of which, down to "tabloid journalism" were the only thing available at the site as of early this morning) condemns the "cut and paste" method in which the statement of Sheikh Kabbani was treated. However, still hanging in the air are proofs for ISCA's advanced allegations. It includes quotes from what "Shaykh Kabbani actually said: Because they are very active [extremists] they took over the mosques; and we can say that they took over more than 80% of the mosques that have been established in the U.S. And there are more than 3000 mosques in the US. So it means that the methodology or ideology of extremist [sic] has been spread to 80% of the Muslim population, but not all of them agree with it."
There are no statistical references [polls, research, personal or commissioned, academic journals, etc.] as to the proposed "80%" figure. The interplay on "extremism" being sometimes the "ideology" of Wahhabism, and sometimes extremism plain and simple as understood by people accross the globe, i.e., la mode du jour, is a matter that would be hard for those who attended the State Department Open Forum to decipher. References to Wahhabism are abundant accross the new analysis: reference to Canadian Saudi-trained Islamic scholar [Bilal Philips] who accused another scholar with connections to the Sufi movement of "kufr" and "shirk" [disbelief and idolatry]; reference to ISNA's connections to Dar al-Ifta [an official Saudi religious law body], and claims of official connections between AMC, ISNA and the Saudis. The attacks are personalized: Imam Siraj Wahhaj (Afro-American), Dr. Abdelrahman Alamoudi (Yemeni-American), MPAC officials (mostly Egyptian-Americans).
Accusing MSA officials who run MSA-Net of "extremism" (loosely defined but definitely with a penchant to what it currently a la mode), the Sufi organization accuses an MSA-Net maintainer of "internet terrorism."
Responding to the "bin Laden specter" of nuclear terrorism and questions about their sources, ISCA includes quotes from various open sources, Western and Arab newspapers (ABCNews, The Evening Herald, The Times, Moscow NTV, Aerospace Daily, Reuters). This seems to be, to the best of our analysis of what is available, the bulk of Sheikh Kabbani's information on 'suitcase bombs'.
The main sources of Sheikh Kabbani's information, as far as the Arab press is concerned seem to be the Saudi-owned al-Wasat newsmagazine, and al-Watan al-Arabi which is close to Egyptian intelligence. At least this is what he quoted with respect to the Muslim women pimping story (see more below.)
Sheikh Kabbani's claims that bin Laden bought "20 nuclear war heads" with opium money are now reported as facts in mainstream news sources. For example, The Florida Times-Union (Jacksonville, FL), in a January 24, 1999 byline titled "More counter-terrorism funds urged Clinton fears bin Laden, others growing bolder," (the article was distributed by Knight-Tribune News Service), writes:
"The leader of a major Muslim organization in the United States told a recent gathering at the State Department that bin Laden has already purchased nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union. Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America, said that bin Laden 'has used two tons of opium and $ 30 million to purchase over 20 nuclear warheads.' Kabbani said bin Laden also 'had hired an international team of rogue nuclear scientists working in a secret underground base to convert warheads stolen from former Soviet republics into miniature portable nuclear devices capable of striking targets around the globe.'"
The author of the article who contacted Nuclear weapons experts, writes further:
"Nuclear weapons experts say it is unlikely that bin Laden's terror network would be able to develop nuclear weapons small enough to be easily transported around the world. 'There were reports in the London Times last year that bin Laden had purchased two nuclear weapons from Kazakhstan and Ukraine,' said Scott Parrish, senior research associate with the Center for Nonproliferation Studies at the Monterey Institute of International Studies in California. 'These are similar to reports that have circulated for years . . . mainly about Iran . . . having purchased weapons from Central Asia.'" [3]
The same article quotes London-based Islamist Abu Hamza, leader of the Supporters of Shariah (SOS) organization. It does not mention that SOS is the former main relay of the notorious Algerian Groupe Islamique Arme (GIA) to the outside world, or that for example, Yemen has requested the extradition of this "activist" (the term used by The Florida Times who also interviewed al-Muhajiroun official Anjem Choudary.)
For your information, Yemen claims, according to various reports we gathered, they found "reserve passports" with the group of British Muslim youth being tried on terrorism charges in the South Arabian state. Reports say Yemen expressed official protest that such reserve passports can only be available to groups sponsored by special sections of the British government.
Last but not least, concerning the affair of Muslim women in Europe, who according to Sheikh Kabbani's testimony are part of a "big network ... run by Muslim women who, during the day, are covered from top to bottom and during the night have dates. They are dating high officials in many countries around the world to take information from them and give it to the extremists."
This affair concerns a network run by a French soft-porn photographer Jean-Pierre Bourgeois who was recently sentenced to five years in prison for running an international prostitution ring. He was in cahoots with Lebanese businessman Nazih Abdullatif al-Ladhki, a former secretary of King Fahd, and Swedish businessman Thomas Axel. The ring has tricked 86 young women, some as young as 15 or 16, into prostitution with a promise of a carrier in modelling or the movies. Clients are said to have included, American actor Robert De Niro, former tennis star Wojtek Fibak, French film producer Alain Sarde, the former Amir of Qatar, one of the brothers of King Fahd, and Christian Courtin, the head of Clarins. According to The Independent of 27 Nov 1998, "[T]he case is not over. The other principal organiser of the conspiracy, Annika Brumark, 50, a one-time Swedish beauty queen, will be tried in May." Many reports we investigated, include the testimony of a 22 year old North African French lady by the name of Nadia M., who testified against Bourgeois. Reports says al-Ladhki was a private secretary of Saudi prince Fawwaz. The Independent says " Nadia said she was 'presented' ... to Robert De Niro but nothing happened; she said she was urged by Bourgeois to have sex with Fibak, but refused. That summer [1996] she was packed off to Saint Tropez, where she was told her career would finally take off. Instead she found herself on a yacht -with another girl - performing sexual acts with the Qatari millionaire, William Kazan." [4]
The Observer was much more explicit: "Clients of the network were said to include senior French politicians, arms dealers, film stars, a well-known singer, Gulf State princes and millionaire businessmen. There were reports of political and diplomatic pressure on the ambitious young investigating magistrate, Frederick N'Guyen, to drop the case...
In 1996 Nadia was living in a Paris hostel after witnessing her father trying to murder her mother. She told the court she was invited to Bourgeois's apartment for a photo-shoot that was to lead to a modelling job for the French cosmetics firm Clarins. 'I was told to strip naked, and to shave off all my pubic hair, she said. 'Mr Bourgeois then rubbed vaseline between my legs and raped me. He did not use a condom. He said it was necessary if I wanted to succeed in the profession.'
Later, Nadia was introduced by Bourgeois to the film producer Alain Sarde, who she said insulted her and had sex with her for pounds 150. And later still to Fibak, in his luxury villa in Boulogne outside Paris. She managed to repel the former tennis champion, who then masturbated in front of her, she told the court.
'He is an evil person, he perverts people,' Nadia, between sobs, said of her alleged pimp. 'He always puts us in a situation where we are wrong and he is right. He tortures people mentally so everything gets mixed up in their minds. . . Bourgeois is a manipulator of minds.'" [5]
The Ottawa Citizen [6] gives more information on the "Muslim women" connection:
In a series of scenes that could have been scripted by Hollywood's finest, the star found himself last week at the centre of an inquiry into a high-class prostitution ring based in Paris. This is, as Mr. De Niro realized on waking up at the five-star Bristol Hotel to find half-a-dozen members of the Paris vice-squad waiting to question him, no ordinary investigation and no ordinary call-girl network.
At stake are million of dollars' worth of arms deals and long-nurtured contacts between France and the ruling families of Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
Investigators believe that the ring has been used for years by businessmen keen to deal with Arab states, who apparently offered girls to their opposite numbers as "sweeteners."
They also believe that the last French government deliberately intervened to slow down the inquiry for fear of its impact on arms sales.
The prostitution ring allegedly involves scores of young women on the fringes of the modelling and acting world, a French soft-porn photographer, a Swedish ex-model and a Lebanese intermediary whose address book is, according to Le Monde newspaper "a veritable Who's Who of pleasure seekers."
Since the investigation began in October 1996, documents said to identify clients from the four corners of the world -- including the Gulf States, Indonesia, Britain and the United States -- have been seized, plus evidence that the tariffs charged ranged from $ 12,000 to a mere $ 800.
Among the politically sensitive names raised during the inquiry is a Gulf prince whose suite at the Crillon Hotel has been raided. A former member of former president Francois Mitterrand's anti-terrorist cell has also been questioned at length.
It is alleged by one of the ring's organizers that the consultant, a much-feared operator in political circles, brought prostitutes from Morocco with the assistance of certain figures in the French consulate in Casablanca.
To make matters still more sensational, the inquiry involves allegations of rape and attempted rape, which, investigators hint, could seriously damage France's relations with some of its most important trading partners in the Middle East. The magistrate has taken testimony from a 16-year-old Swedish girl who claims she was sexually assaulted on a yacht off the south of France by an "Arab" to whom she was introduced, she claims, by Jean-Pierre Bourgeois, a soft-porn photographer....
Included below are some open source reports [7], [8], [9], from Paris Match, and Le Maroc Hebdo, and one about 'Mitterand and l'Affaire Josephine" from a Belgium newspaper. The French sources are much bolder and less sensationalist. Even the name of the member of Mitterand's antiterrorism circle is identified as Paul Barril. Paris Match includes pictures of one victim and those of the Lebanese and French pimps.
The "extremist" connection in this affair is apparently the association with Saudi Arabia and Gulf States. And the "Muslim women" connection is the smuggling of young girls from poor Morocco, with organization within the French consulate in `Casa´. Top-to-bottom cover (in Sheikh Kabbani´s testimony) is, in our understanding, most probably a reference to the Moroccan "Jellabah" worn by most Moroccan women, including prostitutes, hardly a commitment to "Islamic ideals".
Their connection to Islamic activism in North America and "extremism" is, in the words of the French "hors suject..."
NOTES:
[1] The reference to Uzbekistan is most probably in response to a recently circulated article on USENET from the London-based The Economist in which a rival of the Sufi organization who goes by the nom de plume Abul Hasan posted the article under the headline: "For Central Asian dictator, 'Naqshbandi is the right sort of Muslim'."
[Search http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml under author: abulhasan1@hotmail.com].
[2] "Didn't they claim W.D. Muhammad was a Naqshbandi?" posted on uk.religion.islam by "Abul Hasan" , 2 March 1999.
Search http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml under author: abulhasan1@hotmail.com.
See also: "Imam W. Deen initiated in Naqshbandi Way," distributed by Naqshbandi Network on MSANEWS, 21 Jan 1999.
URL: http://msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/199901/19990121.3.html
[3] "More counter-terrorism funds urged Clinton fears bin Laden, others growing bolder," Knight-Tribune News Service, 24 Jan 1999, The Florida Times-Union (Jacksonville, FL), p. A-7.
[4] "The princes and the call girls; It was the case with everything: high-class hookers, Hollywood stars and a small-time crook out of his depth. Toute la France sat in judgement," by John Lichfield, 27 Nov 1998, The Independent (London), p. 8.
[5] "Girls tell of ordeal in thrall to evil vice king; Celebrities shamed as high-class Paris prostitution ring is exposed," Jon Henley, 22 Nov 1998, The Observer, p. 26.
[6] "De Niro's cameo role in France's call-girl circus," 15 Feb 1998, by Susannah Herbert, The Ottawa Citizen, p. F10.
[7] "Emma: Celle par qui le scandale arrive," (Emma, Through Whom The Scandal Hits), Paris Match.
URL: http://www.parismatch.tm.fr/archives/news/prostitu/
[8] "Réseau international de prostitution en France: Visa de charme," (Internation network of prostitution in France: A Visa of Charm), Maroc Hebdo.
URL: http://www.maroc-hebdo.press.ma/mhinternet/Archives278/Article5.html
[9] "Mitterrand et Joséphine, le mystère du prêt saoudie," (Mitterrand and Josephine, Mystery of the Saudi Loan), Le Soir Illustre. URL: http://www.soirillustre.be/3474josephine.html
Have you ever heard the expression, "waiting for the other shoe to drop"?Do you know what it means?
You:
I have...but I am not going to wait for it. If something happens, it happens.
This is in conflict with your original statement, "There will be no retalitation. Folks, settle down."
You originally issued a putative statement of fact, when in reality, it was conjecture.
Whether you wait for it or don't wait for it will have no bearing on whether or not it happens. I don't deny your right to a fatalistic "que sera" attitude, but I do challenge any purported statements of fact that would have us be comforted by what boils down to an alleged proof of a negative.
Given what's been going down in Afghanistan lately, we would have heard at least one big noise by now, if OBL had it within his power.
Are you suggesting that if you knew there was a bomb on a plane, you should be rewarded for not alerting the authorities, and punished if you did alert them?
FWIW: Should there be any more terrorist acts within this nation, there will not be a single Muslim left alive within 24 hours inside our borders. That is something that you can bank on - just one incident - and even little old ladies would shoot middle easterners on sight, groups of civilians would storm the mosques and universities, and the Kristallnacht would look like a picnic. I for one, would be hunting as well.
Have your people get with my people to hammer out the fine print.
Besides everyone knows, it is impossible to get some
nut to fly a plane into a skyscraper......
My beliefs must conform to the fact that an insidious cave dweller has the highly sophisticated ability to coordinate 911, the clever anthrax caper and manage nuclear threats. If I question any detail, then I am branded a heretic.
Any mention that there may be others who are infinitely more qualified, more capable and would benefit more from these atrocities will incite a untoward rage. The mere hint that there are others with a proven track record for this sort of treason is unacceptable in the hysterical climate of today.
You didn't worry much about Y2K did you?
Well, my take on 9/11 -- based on known factors such as the kid in Texas who told his teacher that "WWIII will start tomorrow, it will start in the US, and the US will lose," and the fact that after the FAA ordered the entire civil airline transportation system grounded, there were about a dozen other flights with box-cutter-boys on board -- is that he planned on bringing the US to its knees on 9/11. Where he intended to go from there I have no way of knowing. Perhaps he planned on delivering a coup de gras in the form of a series of mini-nukes to the survivors, perhaps not.
I think however that it's been fairly well established that his intentions for 9/11 went far beyond that which he actually accomplished that day.
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