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To: Southack
Southack, anyone who claims that the President is acting constitutionally without citing the Article which empowers the action they're referring to carries the burden of proof for their assertion. Since I was not the one claiming the the President had the power, granted in the Constitution, to issue such an EO then I was not the one remiss in failing to cite from Article II.

Article I (the legislative Article) details (among other powers of Congress) everything that Congress may do in regard to declaring war. If I assume that people who want to claim that the Constitution provides powers not mentioned within the articles haven't read the document, that's hardly hypocrisy. It's simply an accurate conclusion.

Article I, section 8 mentions that Congress shall have the power to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal and to make rules concerning captures on land and water. It omits any power of Congress to delegate lawmaking powers to any other branch, as well as any power of Congress to empower the President to assume wartime powers absent a declaration of war.

That same section empowers Congress to establish tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court, but fails to empower Congress to delegate that power to the President. According to the 10th Amendment, the only powers the federal government has are specifically enumerated in the Constitution. If it ain't listed, it ain't a federal power.

When discussing the Constitution, I tend to assume that anyone can get out their copy of the document and look up the relevant Article and section. If I'm giving people too much credit by assuming that anyone who holds forth on the Constitution actually has a copy of the document, just say so. If I wait to be asked for a cite, that doesn't make me a hypocrite for observing that others have ignored my request for a cite.

Did you overlook the question I asked you in response to what you posted to me earlier?

300 posted on 11/19/2001 4:43:56 PM PST by Twodees
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To: Twodees
"Southack, anyone who claims that the President is acting constitutionally without citing the Article which empowers the action they're referring to carries the burden of proof for their assertion. Since I was not the one claiming the the President had the power, granted in the Constitution, to issue such an EO then I was not the one remiss in failing to cite from Article II."

But you were remiss. To wit, you claimed that:
"Bush just showed himself to be a Constitutional illiterate or a corrupt President."

Furthermore, you were incorrect in that claim. You base your claim on some tortured logic, in particular that:
"Article I, section 8 mentions that Congress shall have the power to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal and to make rules concerning captures on land and water. It omits any power of Congress to delegate lawmaking powers to any other branch, as well as any power of Congress to empower the President to assume wartime powers absent a declaration of war.

That same section empowers Congress to establish tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court, but fails to empower Congress to delegate that power to the President. According to the 10th Amendment, the only powers the federal government has are specifically enumerated in the Constitution. If it ain't listed, it ain't a federal power."

One problem with your logic is that you presume to distinguish between the "federal government" and "Congress". The 10th Amendment limits the powers given to the whole entirity of our government, not just Congress. Congress is given the authority to write the laws necessary to carry through its powers and obligations. This means that Congress can delegate its authority, so long as Congress had the specific authority granted to it by our Constitution in the first place.

But in your world, only Congress can execute its Constitutional powers even if Congress chooses or finds it necessary to delegate said powers. That's a gross mis-application and misinterpretation of the 10th Amendment (and would in fact deny Congress the ability to have various bureaucracies create their own rules and regulations, among other things).

302 posted on 11/19/2001 8:38:42 PM PST by Southack
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