Posted on 11/17/2001 10:58:21 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
Saturday, Nov. 17, 2001 11:39 a.m. EST Flight 587 Video Shows 'Puff of Smoke' in Sky A second-by-second videotape of the final moments of doomed American Airlines Flight 587 shows a puff of smoke in the sky seconds after it crashed outside New York's JFK Airport Monday, lending credence to eyewitnesses who say the jetliner exploded before slamming into a Rockaway, N.Y., neighborhood. Though Flight 587 probers have not released the key videotape, shot from a Metropolitan Transportation Authority highway surveillance camera, reporters from New York's Daily News were allowed to view it Friday. "The tape ... shows a white outline of the jetliner against a clear sky in fairly steep decline," the News reported in Saturday editions. "Seconds later, the outline disappears and the video shows a blurry, white, undefined patch as the plane apparently breaks apart." Visible in one of the final frames of the sequential videotape is "a puff of white smoke in the sky." The images of Flight 587's final moments are said to be "very unclear." FBI and NTSB investigators hope to learn more through video enhancement techniques. On Friday, MTA spokesman Tom Kelly told NewsMax.com that the FBI had turned the videotape over to the NTSB, but apparently both agencies now have copies and continue to analyze them. Enhancement of the Flight 587 video could confirm the accounts of eyewitnesses like Jackie Powers, who, minutes after the crash, told both ABC News and WABC Radio in New York that she saw "an enormous flash" near the wing on the A-300 Airbus before it dropped from the sky. "I don't know if it was fire or an explosion," she said. "It appeared that debris fell from the left side [of the plane]. It just plummeted. It had no momentum whatsoever. It just plummeted." Dozens of other witnesses told various media outlets they saw the jet either explode or catch fire before it crashed. An explosion would be a problem for NTSB officials, who spent the better part of the last few days trying to sell the idea that the plane's vertical stabilizer snapped off, causing the in-flight breakup, because of "wake turbulence" from a Japan Airlines 747 that had taken off from JFK two minutes earlier. Independent aviation experts have generally scoffed at the NTSB theory. "[747 wake turbulence] is not strong enough to be able to break off a tail or to compromise any sort of a normal airplane," said ABC News aviation analyst John Nance on Friday. "They could turn a little airplane upside down. But especially an A-300, which is a jumbo jet - no way in the world should that ever have any potentially disastrous impact on the aircraft or the tail," he explained. On Wednesday, an unnamed aviation expert quoted in New York's Newsday said one likely explanation for Flight 587's breakup was a bomb exploding on board. (See: Aviation Expert: Bomb One Likely Cause of Flight 587 Crash.)
Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:
TWA 800
War on Terrorism
It started bigtime (from what I remember, I'd bet it's been going on forever, though) with the jfk whack and the magic bullet lone nut assain theory, completely ignoring all sorts of peoples immediate eyewitness testimony, including the crowd pointing to the grassy knoll. It was so wildly successful that they have used it to this day. Some notable whoppers include the gulf of tonkin attack which "justified" the nam war, the mass millions of atrocities fantasy that "justified" the kosovo invasion and pounding serbia, to the twa800 magic exploding center fuel tank and the ability of aeroplanes to climb thousands of feet vertically while at the same time defying the laws of gravity and physics when they are basically unpowered and in large not-any-longer-aerodynamic chunks.
Now we got this one, they are ignoring the civilian eyewitnesses that there was an explosion ahead of any pieces of plane falling off, and they are still mysteriously silent on the eyewitness testimony of the quite nearby military helicopter crew, and the fighter jet pilot. They can order them to remain silent, and they follow orders. So,it's like-why bother giving the government/cops/whomever authority figure a statement if you are an eyewitness to anything, it'll be ignored or you will politely be called a liar or delusional. You might even be accused yourself, like they tried to pin the olympic park bombing in atlanta on richard jewell.
I think it's better to tell them to get stuffed if they even ask you a question. Tell them you'll give your statement to the press and to your own lawyer, and that's it, and only if you even feel like it, or unless you are called as a witness to court, and they'll find out what you saw right then, not before. The only eyewitness testimony "they" believe is anonymous snitch phone calls, now THOSE they universally believe (especially when it's another "governmental employee" calling from a payphone down the street who's the anonymous snitch).
You got it..
This actually a good question. It isn't a problem. What, you thought just because this article said so it was? Who is being gullible?
They are trying to find out what happened. That's only a problem to people who immediately made up their minds and may find their pet theory dismissed.
Tee Hee...
The NTSB's job is to prove why it is safe to fly.
If they need help, the FBI and CIA are there to assist. The real potential of catastrophic economic collapse due to airliners falling from the sky is a matter of NATIONAL SECURITY.
Truth is always sacrificed in the name of National Security.
That's the answer to TWA 800, this, and other 'spontaneous' aircraft accidents.
So what caused the plane to go down before the explosion?
A flat spind would load the engine mounts in the weakest direction. The engines would break off and fly out and away from the path of the rest of the plane, and there could easily be major damage to the wings as the engines broke away, resulting in a fuel explosion. The engines were found 800ft from the main crash site (I think), the tail parts were considerably far back (I don't recall seeing the exact amount).
No coverup -- they have no motive -- flimsy aircraft will have as bad an effect on passinger confidence as flimsy security -- no motive to lie and cover up. Everything I have heard is consistant with mechanical failure of the tail, and the resulting flat spin.
Case you didn't notice, I was being sarcastic. The "problem" is: information being released: "we have no reason to believe this wasn't an accident," and then we have been able to listen to subsequent types of probable accidents, which, subsequently are proven wrong, and then it's on to the next probable type, then proven wrong, etc.
A simple "I don't know, nothing is ruled out in the meantime, and no further comments will be forthcoming until is verified......at this time we CAN rule out the following: A, B, C, and D."
I read "Proof" that it was engine failure.
I've read "proof" that the tail fell off in the wind!
We have all kinds of Experts here at FR. !!!
The many witnesses must be lying about an explosion and fire. That's the only way all the "proofs" can be right. We all know witnesses aren't valid.
By the way, I'm one of those "conspiracy freaks, loonies, tin foilers, stupid posters" that said there were people who saw an explosion and a fire.
Only the FR "experts" are allowed to be right!
Erase this article and the thread that goes with it. The author MUST be lying!
I am sure you are right and it's just as I suspected.
1. If the aircraft were to physically break apart shortly before impact, a puff of WHITE smoke would not indicate an explosion brought it down, ESPECIALLY considering the plane was already crashing and uncontrollable at this point.
2. There had to be, however, a prior cause for the crash. I am personally leaning towards an un-airworthy airframe, damaged by prior CAT, slammed by this WT event, that caused the aircraft to enter an attitude that ripped off the tail. Everything else happened from there.
3. Flame away oh conspiracy and government-is-lying buffs...
On Fox 5 NY a man named Kenneth Brown said this to Rosanna ? and John ?
John: Ken, you there?
Ken, yes yes I am.
John: Can you tell us what you saw Ken?
Ken: Alright, I was out on the boat about a hundred twentieth a hundred nineteenth st when un we stopped the boat cause we have an engine..yah know the engine was making weird sounds, so we stopped the boat and we were back by the engine and I heard a popping sound...not like a a a I cant even say it was an explosion, it was more like a pop and then like a whishing sound and then part of the wing came off.
John:Where was the plane at that moment?
Ken: Right over the bay. Right over the bay
John So is it almost right above you?
Ken: Yes, kinda to the north of us, cause we where more to the east channel drive at that time, on that side of Jamaica Bay and um the pieces that came off the wing...flew into the um tail and tore the tail off and as soon as that happened the plane went belly up towards us and towards the east and it just dove straight down, like the uhh the belly of the plane actually turned toward the south and it went straight down into the ground.
John: So you saw some big pieces of this plane come off...
Ken:We was the first ones on the scene and then the police boat came and we helped them pick up parts of the boat..uh..parts a the plane. We actually took up the blue A off of the tail we put that in the boat. Ummm the picture of the....another piece of the whole top of the tail with the flag on it was laying in shallow water. We took up allot of pieces of the boat...the plane we put it on the boat and took them in to the police boat an helped load em onto the police boat but a a the engine
Rosannabreaks in: Well it sounds like you have some crucial information Ken...
His voice rising Ken says: See the engine...everybody keeps saying the engine fell off...if it fell off it fell off on the way down....
John:U Huh
Ken: That plane as soon as its tail came off it just bellied up and went straight down, so yah know people saying yah know the engine came off, but that came off after the fact. Now as far as explosion, something was happening over the bay, something made the wing shatter and took of the tail. and uh the way I seen it , it still looked like it had its engines on as it was going down.
John: Have you spoken to anyone there uh Ken have you talked to any members of the..
Ken Yeh a yeh police I gave the police a guy in a police boat my name and all that and when I was helping em with ya know the parts of the plane
Woman Ken you sound very shacking up , I'm sure this has..
Ken: I'm still shacking, its a its just a terrible sight. Ya know its something ya see on a movie Ya know how the plane..ya just just knew it..that it wouldn't, as it was going down I was saying hit the ocean hit the ocean thinking ya know maybe it cleared, its only 4 blocks wide but the plane just turned over and came straight down. It was..its a sight to see..it was ya know stunned me
Woman Were you able to keep your composure and think clearly at that point?
Ken: Yes, actually actually the things was starting to fly down toward the boat so we backed up a little bit toward the the trestles the A train trestle and then we came back to see if they was any...ah cause at one time I thought I could see a seat but I wasn't even sure, Nothing heavy came down, everything floated down
Woman: Do you think you got everything that was in the water?
Ken Mostly everything that was floating yah. Cause a the police boat came like the within 5 minutes..3 minutes maybe but that plane was gone in 6 seconds, when I heard the popping sound and seen the flames seen the uh wing hit the back tail an that came off it couldn't a been more than 3 seconds for it was down
John: So your saying the wing came off and hit the tail?
Ken: Parts yes...the whole section of the tail was what we recovered. The A the little flag on the top of the tail section that whole section, like the 30 foot top of that was stuck in the sand...in the water about 5 feet of water but there was other pieces floating around..as a matter of fact I took the blue A and we pulled that part on the boat and brought it over to the police boat. They was asking for our help then allot of boats came by allot of police boats
John:Nick your sitting hearing what Ken is saying that if any any questions for him?
Nick Well um it sounds like Ken is your describing is a again that something exploded uh to cause these pieces of the wing to come out. Is that what you sug..
Ken: Exactly something happened to that wing that sent pieces of it back to the tail.
John was it the left wing or the right wing Ken do ya know?
Ken ahh see now like my friend..well.. a it bellied up to me and a when it bellied up to the east it a looked like the right wing cause the left wing still looked intact to me. It looked like the right wing had come off..or part of it
John: well that would fit with what the
(over talk..engine..saying..?)Nick: Unnn but again Ken Kinda saying the engine fell off after the fact but still potentially the engine exploding could could cause pieces of the engine to fly I mean what may have happened was a a series of events where pieces if the engine actually flew back and struck the tail or even that pieces of the engine and the wing at the same time so a but a Kens observations of the tail is a very interesting clue
John Do you live around there Ken?
Ken Yes, I live in Hamilton beach right off Jamaica Bay and a thats the whole thing..That plane would have went over Rockaway cause it was still like level until the tail came off and then it just bellied up and spun around and came straight down uh otherwise it would..that tail..as soon as it shattered thats when the plane lost everything
Nick: Now Ken did you see actual flames coming out of an engine that was..?
Ken: There was flames on the belly of the plane..I don't know weather it was the engine or ya know, but the plane bellied up towards us as it was going down and flames in the a..in that vicinity of the engines or whatever like underneath the plane
Well Ken we a thank you for your time
Ken: No Problem
And flight TWA 800 went down how??? Hundreds of witnesses saw that missile, but of course, NTSB provided the evidence there too!
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