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The problem isn't Islam by itself. It is the culture. The Islamic countries, mostly, have this union of religion and government. Every governmental decision becomes a religious one. Every time a person objects to a law/decision/rule, he is fighting the main religion. It holds them back. It empowers the religion with all the destructive force of the government.

Most (all?) countries in the west have gotten away from that. They split the two, removing all that power from the religious institutions. That's why we no longer have crusades, the inquisition, and other holy wars.

If the countries that have Islam as their religion are going to progress, they will have to do something similar. It could take hundreds of years?

34 posted on 11/16/2001 10:44:22 PM PST by RickGee
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To: RickGee
There are some decent Islamics, as suprising as it seems. I wish these guys would gain in prominence in the middle east:

Declaration

by the Majlis al-Ulema (Council of Scholars) of the Italian Muslim Association

As-salamu 'alaykum wa rahmat-Ullahi wa barakatuH (May peace, Allah's mercy and His blessings be upon you)

Allah (God) will bless the nations and true leaders who condemn, in clear uncompromising terms, those parents, teachers, and murderous criminals, who raise children on a poisoned diet of apostasy, hatred and violence. These so-called Muslims send our children to die in acts of fitnah (sedition), while they direct the suicidal sacrifice and slaughter of these children from safe command posts, far from the battle.

In defense of a wicked regime, innocent ignorant children are sent to be killed in criminal actions. This regime even dares to declare that Islam approves of these criminal acts, and compares them to jihad fi sabili-Llah (actions for the sake of Allah).

There are courageous Ulema of Ahlu-s-Sunnah (Sunni scholars) in Jerusalem, risking their lives and the lives of their children by declaring that sedition against the State of Israel, shooting, stabbing and throwing stones at Israelis are acts of fitnah (sedition) and are, therefore, haram (forbidden), deserving Allah's (God's) punishment.

W-Allahi (We swear by Allah's name), one noble Sunni 'alim (scholar) we know, a Sheikh in al-Quds (Jerusalem) who sits on the Advisory Board of the Islam-Israel Fellowship of the Root & Branch Association, prays and fasts for the peace of al-Quds (Jerusalem). He is ready to speak the truth against those who declare anti-Israeli fitnah permissible and dare to compare it to jihad (an act for the sake of God). His son was invited by ten and eleven year old schoolmates to go and throw stones at Israelis. When his son declared, "doing so is haram (forbidden)", the son was harassed by the other boys. A spiritual brother in Italy of this Sheikh was harassed for saying that one who dies as a suicide bomber risks dying the death of jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic pagans).

Since we here in Italy and the free nations are not in the situation of our brothers in the lands of darkness and dictatorship, since no one until now prevents us to speak, we must condemn in absolutely clear and uncompromising voices the people of fitnah (sedition). We must identify by name the criminals who spread Jew-hatred ("anti-semitism" and "anti-Zionism") among Muslims. Know, and may Allah (God) prevent you and us from being counted among al-mufsidun (mischief makers), that Allah (God) prescribed to His servants al-islah (prosperity and peace), and forbade them al-fasad (making mischief).

In the noble Shari'ah (religious law) of Islam (The Faith), as long as a government is established, and as long as this government does not prevent Muslims from abiding by their Din (religion) and to recite the five salawat (prayers) in jama'at (communally), obeying the ruler is wajib (required), except when the ruler compels Muslims to commit haram (forbidden acts). Only in that case is disobeying the government's order wajib (required). However, rebelling against the government is even in this case haram (forbidden), while committing acts of rebellion against the government is the sin of fitnah (sedition), which is worse than murder.

Since that day is now clearly approaching, we must educate Muslims to avoid fitnah (sedition), and cease every act of rebellion against the government established in the territory where they live, be it the State of Israel or any other state in the world that does not prevent Muslims from raising their salawat (prayers) in their masajid (mosques).

Believing that acts of rebellion, such as throwing stones and Molotov cocktails or shooting at the Israeli army, police or civilian population are permissible according to Islamic Shari'ah (Law) is even more dangerous than committing them while convinced that they are haram (forbidden). The one who confuses fitnah (sedition) with jihad (an act for the sake of God) is excused if he does so out of ignorance, but the one who is learned is really risking making batil (nullified) his Islam (Faith).

Rasul-Ullah, sall-Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam (the Prophet Muhammed), said: "There will be a huge fitnah (sedition) within my Community. There will not remain one Arab house where fitnah (sedition) will not enter. Those who die because of it are in the hellfire. The harm of the tongue in that day will be greater than that of the sword".

That day is rapidly approaching now, and especially in Bilad as-Sham (the greater Levant) where the innocent, ignorant and illiterate masses are completely poisoned, perverted and pervaded by fitnah (sedition). The harm of the sword is in committing crimes of sedition and rebellion by using weapons. The even greater harm of the tongue is in declaring this behavior permissible (!), and even deserving a thawwab (reward in the world to come for good deeds) from Allah (God).

May Allah Ta'ala (God the Most High) save Muslims from being involved in fitnah (sedition) and from the risk of mingling their tongues with the tongues of those who commit that harm which is even greater than the harm of the sword.

Praise be to Allah and Allah knows best.

Wa-s-salamu 'alaykum wa rahmat-Ullahi wa barakatuH (May peace, Allah's mercy and His blessings be upon you)

Majlis al-Ulema (Board of Scholars) Italian Muslim Association Rome, Italy

17 Safar, 1422 May 11, 2001 18 Iyar, 5761

46 posted on 11/16/2001 11:24:02 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: RickGee
It's not the culture but the religion.

Look at the countries that are being controlled and taken over by the Moslems, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc. When the Moslems take control, they start instituting the same policies as the Arab world. Look at the Moslems in this country. Even though many are American citizens, they voice alliance with Ben Ladin's brand of religion. In some areas of our own country at least 50% support Ben Ladin.

204 posted on 11/18/2001 7:17:47 AM PST by FR_addict
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