Christian leader condemns Islam (Preacher Franklin Graham calls Islam ‘wicked, violent’)

msnbc ^ | 11/16/2001 | By Jim Avila

[monkeyshine]

The Talmud is regarded by almost all Jews as superior to the Tanakh. Where the two disagree, the Talmud takes precedence.

Nonsense. The Torah is the Holy book. The Mishnah is the written codification/compilation (written apx 200 AD) of the oral tradition that Jews followed and passed on by word of mouth since the giving of the Torah, to help fill in the gaps found in the written law. The Mishnah explains the practice of the written Law found in the Torah. (i.e. the procedure for following the "thou shall not cook a calf in it's mothers milk" commandment). Over the next four centuries (apx 200 AD-600 AD) this law underwent discussion and debate in both of the world's major Jewish communities (in Israel and Babylon), and the commentaries on the Torah and Mishna from both of these communities eventually came to be edited together into compilations known as the Talmud. It is remarkably similar to the socratic method, whereby many leading rabbis of that era are quoted regarding a specific law as written in the Torah or the Mishnah. The point is, the Talmud and the Torah will never "disagree" as you said. The Talmud is commentary on the law itself... like FR is commentary on the news of the day, the Talmud is commentary on the Torah and Mishnah and how it related to the Jewish experience and practice at the time it was written.

[monkeyshine]

Just to be clear, I used the word Torah and see now that you said Tanakh. The Tanakh includes the Torah (the Law, the 5 books of Moses) but also includes 19 other books, Joshua through Chronicles.

Orthodox Jews of today do not really practice the Law in the way of the Talmud, although they do study it intensely as a source of the law. In fact their methods for practicing the law come much later. And some of these later practices draw from the earlier ones, which draw from the Talmud but do not necessarily concur with the practices of the Talmudic era. Again, the point is the Talmud is important but mostly as a method for understanding thought processes. A lot of the later practices were influenced by Maimonades (late 1100's) who injected logical reasoning into the laws for better understanding. He was heavy on metaphysics and science in relation to the Laws.

[Uncle Meat]

If he'd had called Islam a peaceful religion,then I'd have to call him a liar.

[Gumption]

I have not called anyone a "name."

"You are a loser"

"You are another racist."

"You are are on my ignorant list."

Are you sure about that?

[KQQL]

Ditto, check this article and see what the Mullahs were up to on the start of Ramadan.

Faith, politics collide at start of Ramadan

[MistyCA]

I am willing to acknowledge and accept the rights of other people to have their God, Allah, Buddah or whatever, but when that belief begins and ends calling for the destruction of other people it is unacceptable. What bothers me about the statement you made is that it does not allow for the beliefs of other people and it puts Christianity in the same unfortunate light as Islam. You are, afterall, saying that Islam is evil because they do not believe in our God. That is the same thing as Islam saying that we are evil because we do not believe in Allah. That is the dog that won't hunt in this world.

[MistyCA]

To further clarify my statement, I do believe that Islamic teachings are anti-Christianity. That to me is evil. I just don't want us taking that same position.

[MistyCA]

I cringe to read your post because I know how true it is.

[MistyCA]

I think you are right, Muslims are not bad people. But there are factions within Islam that teach hatred for others. Saying that I have to also say that I know from personal experience that there are factions within the jewish faith that do the very same thing. I recall not long ago that a Jewish friend (whose daughter married a Jewish Fundamentalist and lives in Israel) was having a party at her home. Her daughter and son-in-law came to visit from Israel at the same time. When the son-in-law entered the house and saw that there were people there who were not "Kosher" he threw a fit and began demanding that everyone leave. He would not eat in the kitchen that had been contaminated and in order to appease him my friend's kitchen needed to be re-done. I personally would have sent his butt packing back to Israel, but my point here is that all religions have their fanatics who are intolerant of the rest of us.

I have also seen evidence of the teachings of the Mullahs who demand uprisings against the Jews and the Christians. I have talked to people who hold that belief. Perhaps the Koran does not teach that (even in our Bible we can read passages that seem to call for an uprising against others) but there are factions that use the Koran (or the Bible) to support their fanatism. To say that all Islams or all Christians or all Jews are holding beliefs similar to those of fanatics is wrong, imo.

[MistyCA]

Please, because there are extremists in the Muslim religion does not mean that they all feel that way. I know Muslims who love America and hold no resentment or hatred toward Jews or Christians. You seem to be using the same passages of the Koran to hold your beliefs that bin Laden uses to justify his.

[DonQ]

“Islam never teaches hatred, Islam never teaches terrorism,” says Imam Hassan Al-Qazwini of the Islamic Center of America.

Well .... all those Moslems are learning their hatred and terrorism from somewhere.   Anyone who thinks that Islam teaches people tolerance should see how "dhimmitude" works in Moslem countries.

[the_alfalfanator]

bump

[kcvl]

At a mosque in Khobar, he asked God to "protect the innocent Muslims and give them victory over the infidels and enemies of Islam."

the preacher at the Amman University mosque in Jordan. He called on God to wreak vengeance on "Americans, Jews, their allies

"The Americans are digging their own grave and, God willing, our holy warriors in Afghanistan will bury them soon,"

senior Shi'ite Muslim cleric, told worshippers at a south Beirut mosque that the United States was trying to crush the Taliban regime in order to establish a "strategic base" in Central Asia

away from the pulpit there was no shortage of sentiment in favor of bin Laden and his al Qaeda terrorist network

[SLB]

Finally someone with a national audience tells it like it is. Our pastor has been saying this at church every Sunday since September and the audience is growing each Sunday. I am heading off to a men's prayer breakfast in about 10 minutes and I hope to hear more of the same. I know that is the word I will be bringing.

[MistyCA]

I know that. I also know that the fundamentalists are basically very oppressive to women. However, they are not all like that. Look at the past two queens of Jordan, for instance. They are very westernized and very free in their nation. I just don't think it is wise to paint them with such a broad brush, although I certainly hear what you are saying and agree that there are a lot of people in that religion who have a primary goal of killing the infidels. And the vast numbers of them presents a very real danger and concern to all of us.

Your example is not the only one. There are schools throughout the Middle East who teach their children from a very young age to hate Americans and Jews. That is basically the only thing that is taught. Those people wake up in the morning and go to bed at night with hatred primary in their minds, I am sure. I have heard it from someone I know who lives in America but believes that Allah is the only true God and Jews must be killed. I do not believe that he himself would kill a Jew, but he certainly would cheer if someone else did. I see that as a very sick and demented attitude.

[FreedomPoster]

Please, because there are extremists in the Muslim religion does not mean that they all feel that way.

No, but a significant proportion of them seem to, and the "moderates" seem to be the ones who aren't publicly calling for elimination of infidels. Look at the history and practice of this religion; it is not a pretty thing.

If the so-called Muslim moderates were, in large numbers, denouncing their radical breatheren and helping root them out, it would be one thing. They aren't.

At heart, the teachings of the Koran are hateful and cause large numbers of devout Muslims to engage in killing to expand the religion. The actions of the founder of this religion, Muhammed, were demonstrably evil and perverted by the standards of many reasonable belief systems and people. This is the core of the problem, and until Muslims are whacked hard enough for large numbers of them to reset their thinking, the world will continue to have problems with this murderous tyrannical cult of personality masquerading as a religion.

[MistyCA]

Did you realize that Islam was based on Christianity and that Allah is the same God that you and I believe in? They do not, however, believe that Jesus is the son of God, but then, neither do the Jews.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree that the Muslims who do not believe in the same hatred need to rise up and take a position against those who do. I also realize that I still have a lot to learn about this. My whole point remains that as a Christian I can not take the position that just because someone's belief in God is different than mine, that that person is evil. Hatred is evil. Terrorism is evil. We need to be careful that in our fear and disgust we do not cross that very same line.

[auggy]

"Anyone can pick up a copy of the Koran and see that Franklin Graham is correct about Islam. Its great to see a preacher have the guts to stand up against the whole world and proclaim the truth about Islam"

I couldn't agree with you more. It is high time our government speak the truth, also.

[AppyPappy]

One difference. Neither the Jews nor the Christians bombed the WTC and later flew planes into it. Nor did they blow up the German disco or hold Christians hostage. Nor did they issue a death threat to an author for criticizing their religion to the point where he had to hide out for years.

In theory, everything is the same. In reality, it is all different.