You didn't "come" to this position. You were already predisposed to it. Read my posts just above yourself and then either retract your comments or leave them so that we can see how rhetoric and false historical presumptions guide your comments.
Utimately, the pro-Israel crowd here has exactly four arguments.... None of these arguments is valid. And none of the pro-Israel ranters have ever made any arguments which don't fall into one of these categories. Mostly, they just shout.
Do you usually engage in strawman arguments and diatribes like this? Refute the historical and fact based posts which have been made before your post or else be exposed as nothing but a propagandist of falsehood. I find it amusing how accusations like "The ones who denounce Israel are discredited lefties. They lie." are really the projections of those who don't have the time nor inclination to examine the historical record. Instead, individuals like you create ad hominems and then curl up in a ball and cry foul when the accusation is given back. Either play by the rules and examine the material or find something else to do. Either way pee or get off the pot.
I find it amusing that you would dare say this as the first posts of the shout-them-down corner have been:
Alouette: Barf alert
Inyokern: Left wing propaganda. The left hates Israel, even the Jewish left.
Alouette: Barf alert
MississippiMan: MegaBarf alert
Veronica: Leftwingnuts.
veronica: Shouldn't you Lefties be posting at DemocratUnderground or SmirkingChimp.com? LOL....
veronica: Most Jews in America, Liberal or Conservative, support Israel totally.
scooter2: Nothing worth reading here, move along.
[more crud from veronica and alouette]
marty60: PO is a Muslim symp.
sbertooth: [some biblical justification]
micheal2001: these stupid leftist Jews keep blaming Israel for not making peace
Need we continue?
.
As for the historical record, it's not difficult for any thinking person to discern the broad outline, which is why I have always had a pro-Palestinian bais. These facts are:
1. In the 1880s, Zionists decided to carve a Jewish homeland out of Arab lands, displacing the inhabitants.
2. The inhabitants objected to this takeover, as they had a clear right to do so.
3. 700,000 of them wind up in refugee camps when said Jewish homeland is finally created over their objections.
4. More Palestinians wind up under occupation by the Zionists after 1967.
5. Israelis slowly strangle the rest of Palestine for the next 34 years.
The questions of how much killing was done by either side and who did what to whom to what time kinda pale when compared to these basic facts, don't they?
What I have learnt in the last two months relates to how much the Israelis stole and murdered to create Israel and how much the stories of Arab aggression since 1948 are fabrications. But even if all this is Arab propaganda, it's still changes nothing. You can't deny any of the basic facts I listed above. They are the underlying rationale for the Arab claim to Palestine and they are irrefutable.