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To: wjeanw
What needs to happen is that for evangelical Christian churches to take the lead. While inviting Muslim leaders to fellowship and "share about Islam," they should in turn "share about the Gospel." Churches near Muslim communities should be stocked with the New Testament and Gospels translated into Arabic. Evangelism can go both ways!

Yes sir, stop the Muslims from forcing us the live under the soul-crushing weight of Sharia (rule by Quranic law) by forcing us to live under the crushing weight of rule by the Old Testament.

I gotta better idea. You practice your religion, I'll practice mine and the Muslims will practice theirs. Keep all of the different religion out of government. But most importantly, keep government out of religion.

14 posted on 11/12/2001 3:56:11 AM PST by woofer
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To: woofer
the crushing weight of rule by the Old Testament.
Rip Van Winkle! Is that YOU posting as Woofer???

You've been asleep a LOoooOOOOoong time. Christ (you know, the title of the fellow we Christians follow) has implemented a NEW testament, as the OLD one was merely to point us toward Him.


NIV Galatians 4:21-31
 21.  Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?
 22.  For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
 23.  His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
 24.  These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.
 25.  Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
 26.  But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
 27.  For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."
 28.  Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.
 29.  At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 
 30.  But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
 31.  Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.
 
 
 
NIV Hebrews 7:18-20
 18.  The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless
 19.  (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
 
 
 
NIV Hebrews 8:6-13
 6.  But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises.
 7.  For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
 8.  But God found fault with the people and said : "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
 9.  It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them,  declares the Lord.
 10.  This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
 11.  No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, `Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
 12.  For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
 13.  By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
 
 
NIV Hebrews 9:1-4
 1.  Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary.
 2.  A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand, the table and the consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place.
 3.  Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place,
 4.  which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron's staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant.

21 posted on 11/12/2001 4:07:35 AM PST by Elsie
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To: woofer
Who's asking them to live under the rule of the OT? Christ's message is what's important, not the Old Testament. It's an important part of the Bible, for sure, but there's salvation ONLY in Jesus Christ.
62 posted on 11/12/2001 11:48:56 AM PST by Marysecretary
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To: woofer; wjeanw
While inviting Muslim leaders to fellowship and "share about Islam," they should in turn "share about the Gospel." from wjeanw
Yes sir, stop the Muslims from forcing us the live under the soul-crushing weight of Sharia (rule by Quranic law) by forcing us to live under the crushing weight of rule by the Old Testament. I gotta better idea. You practice your religion, I'll practice mine and the Muslims will practice theirs. Keep all of the different religion out of government. But most importantly, keep government out of religion. from woofer

This is as far as I could get in this thread before I lost it.
We Americans need to get a clue. Islam wins through a Divide and Conquer strategy as much as any other mechanism.

To wjeanw: The majority of Muslims are BORN Muslims, not converted. When born into Islam, one cannot escape eaisly. The majority of converts to Islam are COMPELLED to convert, frequently on pain of suffering or death. ALL converts are motivated to convert through threat of violence or eternal damnation. ALL. To equate the efforts of Islam to convert non-believers to the efforts and method of Christian evangelism is highly misleading and inaccurate. When presented correctly, there is no coercion in Christian evangelism . Islam depends on coercion.

To woofer: Christianity is based on New Testament practice, not Old Testament Law. Christianity is the act of following Christ, not the act of following the Law of Moses. No Christian is forced to live by a set of laws. All Christians are asked to live as Christ asked and as the Holy Spirit leads. That is why you'll see so much diversity in the practice of Christianity. Each denomination has it's own distinctive 'personality', some strict, some liberal.

You obviously have an irrational fear of religion. Christianity is not your enemy woofer. Christians will leave you alone if that is your desire. Muslims will not. Given the opportunity and power to do so, they will convert you, or kill you, (witness the Sudan and many others throughout history).

We Americans, Christian and non-Christian, atheist or whatever, have got to get our heads on straight. We've been deeply divided and manipulated politically for so long we have fallen into opposing camps with imaginary conflicts. That is what is truly empowering our enemies. Black vs White, (for that matter Black against everyone), Non-Christian vs Christian, female vs male, etc.

Drop the silly differences and unite! Get some perspective on who the enemy truly is!

78 posted on 11/13/2001 2:37:10 AM PST by SmartEnough
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To: woofer
Your response I think mixes up two issues. One pertains to the nature of law. Everyone lives by law (standards on moral right and wrong). The question in every civilization is whose law will a majority follow? Western civilization up until the last century agreed Biblical law was it. (English law stems from the first law code of King Alfred, which in turn begins with the 10 commandments.) Can you really say the atheistic law code has been a sucess given this century's implementation record of Nazi Germany and the Communist states of USSR and China?

The second issue is the relationship between church and state, or who determines the content of the law; who enforces it. The Reformation answered this question in a way which I think created the freest society in history (see REX LEX by Rutherford, written as a refutation of the divine right of kings) and its implementation in colonial America. I recommend to you NEVER BEFORE IN HISTORY by Amos. Also see the web page, "American Colonists Library" which traces the intellectual development of our Constitution.

81 posted on 11/13/2001 7:17:32 AM PST by wjeanw
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