Lakeside bans Confederate flag

Augusta Chronicle ^ | 11/10/01 | Melissa Hall

[shuckmaster]

Lakeside High School officials are asking students not to wear clothing bearing the Confederate flag, at least for now.

While the Columbia County school system does not prohibit students from wearing the Confederate standard, recent racial tensions at Lakeside have prompted school officials to temporarily ban it on campus.

"On Tuesday we had five students involved in what we call actions preceding a fight; they were yelling at each other and squaring off," Lakeside Principal Victor Lee said. "Three of them were black, and two were white. The black kids came out with the fact that they felt like we were a racist school, with the kids wearing the Confederate flag, and they made an issue out of it."

The five students were suspended, Mr. Lee said. Nine other white students were identified throughout the day trying to promote the fight off-campus.

"As we got involved with those nine, I noticed that some of them were wearing the Confederate flag, and I asked them to work with me as we got through this issue and not wear the Confederate flag for a while," he said.

The students who were wearing the Confederate flag were asked to change their attire, said schools Superintendent Tommy Price.

"It is my understanding that they had other T-shirts to take their place and that they didn't have a problem with it," he said.

Students are generally not prohibited from wearing the flag at school.

"As long as there's no real problem caused by it, we don't have a problem with students wearing the Confederate emblem," Mr. Price said. "But given the disruption it's causing in the school, we felt like we needed to take this stance at this time."

[PeaRidge]

For me, Southern Heritage, describes a code of behavior. It is immediate mutual respect, manners, self-control, and self-reliance. This is the social glue that enables a peaceful society without government having to legislate social regulations.

It is also a common recognition that you should not need any government except minimal structure.

It is a collective conscience of morality and loyalty to your neighbor, your community, and your state.

It is knowledge of your role and your heritage that enables you to carry out your responsibilities. It is preservation of the collective good by understanding the mistakes of the past.

[Illbay]

That's fine, but those others didn't have much debate on them. That's what I was pointing to. A lot of good FACTUAL information on those earlier threads, as opposed to the good ol' boy, backslappin' stuff that sounds good in the family room after Sunday dinner, but doesn't hold much in the way of actual information.

[DWSUWF]

"...It was far more common than you seem prepared to admit..."

Two points...

1) I stand by my remarks. I'm aware of competing points of view in this area, and I've concluded that most of them are the result of revisionism.

And

2) With regard to the phrase, "...than you seem prepared to admit."

I'm inclined to read into these words a very subtle implication that I might feel in some way a twinge of guilt with regard to the slavery issue.

Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, it is a matter of indifference to me.

I've never owned a slave, and 'I' am the only human being who has ever lived, in the history of mankind, for whose actions 'I' am responsible. I couldn't legitimately feel guilt for the actions of others in this (or any other) arena even if I wanted to.

And I don't.

It is fashionable today to take a certain ‘party line’ view of slavery, a view intended to placate and mollify those who descended from the slaves.

The issue of their ancestor's status as slaves is an issue that many, frankly too many, Blacks today attempt to insinuate into dialogs regarding their seeming inability to fully engage themselves in the American culture. Many non-Blacks are sympathetic, or seek to at least simulate sympathy, and this tempest in a teapot rages on, and on, and on...

I have additional opinions in this regard, but I won't collect a payment from anyone to expand on them, so I'll simply leave it at this...

It's not my problem.

[Non-Sequitur]

Fair enough, I base my claims on the data from the 1860 census obtained from a website sponsored by the University of Virginia and located here . What do you base your claims on?

[DWSUWF]

"...What do you base your claims on?..."

Whoa! You remind me of the Renault advertisement from the 1960's, which played on the old saying about "putting the cart before the horse."

I'm indifferent with regard to convincing you of anything, friend. And I doubt that I could alter your view of history if I strapped you in my trusty time machine and set the dial for 'Swing low, sweet chariot time in Dixie'.

Now, if you genuinely want for me to educate you, I'll be obligated to do research. In addition to tuition, I charge a very modest, non-negotiable, and non-refundable fee of 100 dollars an hour, plus expenses, for that service.

I'll also require a deposit estimated to cover 150% of my initial billing statement. That way, if you don't pay your bill, it doesn't matter because I've already got the first month's balance due plus payment for work in progress at the time the due date is breached.

Where may I mail your contract to?

[Non-Sequitur]

Now, if you genuinely want for me to educate you, I'll be obligated to do research.

So you made your claims about slavery without researching the matter first? You made your claims without knowing if they were right or not? That explains it. Thanks, but I'll pass on the contract since I seem to be doing a better job of fact-finding as it is.

[DWSUWF]

"...So you made your claims about slavery without researching the matter first?..."

Oooh! It looks good!

Wait...

How many people 'take notes' as it were, on a daily basis as they encounter and absorb information? When I request your sources and footnotes (on the topic of my choosing) will you be sending them on paper or disk?

Ohhhhhh... (The crowd sighs.)

It looked like a good rejoinder, but -alas- it was...

A miss.

[Non-Sequitur]

Generally I like to provide a website to support my claims like I did above. But I'll also quote books and articles. What I try never to do is to make a claim that I can't provide the evidence for. Especially if someone provides documentation that directly conflicts with the claim I just made, like I did to you. Words to live by.

[LibKill]

Folks, the Civil War has been over for more than 100 years.

The Yankees won. And yet they lost too. No one wins a civil war. Let's stop re-fighting it.

[DWSUWF]

"...Words to live by..."

LOL!

We'll never be able to sell each other on the goods we have to hawk.

Nor will either of us concede a fraction of a point scored by the other.

To call that a ‘Mexican Standoff’ is so double-plus-ungood-not-PC-speak...

I’ll settle for ‘Stalemate’.

[PeaRidge]

You must be having a good morning because you actually said one thing that is true.

No matter how you arrange the statistics, the South of the 1860's was agricultural. Practically every slave owner worked in the fields with his slave labor, while the children did the same.

This points out the absurdity of the Slave Aristocracy concept. However, you did assert the big fallacy that the South was fighting to preserve slavery. Remember, it did not have to fight, the slave states had seceded and specifically legalized slavery in these states.

The South fought to keep the armed people of Mass., RI, NY, Ohio, Pa., NH, IL., etc. off our land.

You should be asking why, if slavery was gone from the North due to secession, were these people were ordered to our soil?

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

If they are going to ban the Confederate flag, what about satanic tee-shirts? I'm not Confederate flag waver, but darn. Where is all this outrage when it comes to Satan promotion? I guess Satan is just fine in their eyes, no?

[dixiemelody]

*smile*
Why thank you, kind sir.

[dixiemelody]

Bump
I hear ya. But my husband is from New York, so I must say that some yankees do understand and share the same good manners. *smile*

[dixiemelody]

Slavery did indeed exist. But it existed among the plantations...the rich Southerners. If you've visited the South, I think you can see that most of us don't come from the rich plantation families. Most of us are from good ole Hillbilly stock.

[sweetliberty]

All we want is for these troublemakers to leave our freedoms and our flag alone. If that is too much to ask, then lets quit kidding ourselves about living in a free country.

[Non-Sequitur]

You do me little credit, Pea. Everything I say is true. I suppose you can provide something to back up your claim that practically every slave owner worked in the fields with their slaves, especially since a sizable number of slave owners lived in urban areas and their chattel was used as house servants and the like. There were even isolated incidents of slaves being used in factory work, but those were exceptions. I have a problem forming a mental image of Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson laboring out in the fields with the slaves.

[JMJ333]

And BTW: I am continually amazed how people like you call it "the war of Northern aggression" when it was the rebels who fired the first shot, and moved aggressively--and illegally--to take over Federal government posts and buildings.

Take a look at a battle map. The north was clearly on the offensive while the south was clearly on the defensive--hence the name War of Northern Aggression.

You asked me to "prove" it wasn't about slavery. You've been on this forum a long time-- How much more evidence could one offer to you? If you can't understand that poor southern boys fought and died for their homes and families then nothing I say to you will ever convince you otherwise.

I'll try one last time though. In the museum at Shiloh, there are letters on display. One is from a southern boy describing his exchange with a yankee soldier. It was unaddressed at the time of his death so it was never sent. It basically says this:

Southern Boy: Why you tryin to kill me?

Northern boy: Free your slaves!

Southern Boy: I ain't got no slaves!

Northern boy: Why you tryin to kill me?

Southern boy: Cause you came down here to kill me!

Don't believe me? Take a trip to Shiloh, Tennessee and see for yourself. But that my knock down some of those blinders you wear, so I won't hold my breath.

Politicians exude a lot of BS, but it was poor uneducated boys who felt the need to stand up and defend their homes and property against northern soldiers who came as aggressors. There is always more than one causation to any war--quit broad brushing all southerners who fought in that war as a bunch of bigots. They weren't.

[4CJ]

A least one Yankee does understand what being "Southern" means, and has good manners too boot?

Why ma'am (tipping my hat and bowing low...), the South owes a great debt of gratitude to you, and could never repay you for your actions.