Apologizing For Bible Truth ?

The Baptist Bible Trumpet ^ | Nov 2001 | Steven Mays

[Church Lady]

Apologizing for Bible Truth?

A few weeks ago Jerry Falwell apologized for the comments he made while he was being interviewed by Pat Robertson. What did Jerry Falwell say that was so awful?

Based on the response he's received you would have thought that he blasphemed God, or denied the virgin birth, or burned the American flag publicly. After all, Pat Robertson, Cal Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, even President Bush vehemently condemned what he said. Whatever he said must have really been awful because he came out quickly and apologized. What did he say? He said that the sins and wickedness of people in our nation are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. He specifically mentioned homosexuals, lesbians, feminists, abortion and a few other sins. This "horrible" statement brought the wrath of so-called "Christian" leaders, not to mention the White House, down upon him. That's it folks.

Since he has retracted his statement and apologized for it, I want to go on record today as saying, "The sins and wickedness of people in America are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. Specifically, I believe several national sins such as the homosexual and lesbian lifestyle, the home wrecking, God-denying, feminist movement, the millions of abortions performed annually, as well as the compromising, worldly churches are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation."

I was taught to believe that righteousness exalts a nation and sin brings reproach to any nation. Therefore I do not expect to make any apologies for the statements I have just made.

If George Washington were alive today I don't think he would be apologizing for Jerry's statements. He once said, "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens."

I don't think Thomas Jefferson would be apologizing. He once said, "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble For my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."

I wrote last month that our nation's political leaders are just a reflection of our nation's pulpits' leaders. Mr. Falwell's apology just proves my point. Politicians as a rule don't seem to have a backbone, but neither do most preachers.

Remember the words of Isaiah 5:20, "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" We won't apologize for God's Truth and then expect God to bless America. Mr. Falwell, you had it right-you had no business apologizing.

Pastor Steven E. Mays - Trumpet Editor

[OWK]

sorry, literacy is a good thing, isn't it?

Actually you've been quite literate, quite cogent, and thankfully quite civil in this discussion (as has "He rides a white horse").

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these things (even though they are weighty matters) without the conversation spinning quickly out of control into an emotional morass.

Thanks. (really)

[OWK]

I just hope it doesn't come in the last chapter.

If God wants me... he knows where to find me.

[dubyagee]

If you want me to believe it is real, I will test it objectively.

I suppose if you wanted to test God, the easiest way would be to pray. But a prayer must come from the heart. I'm not one that would say that anyone could pray the "sinner's prayer" and come to repentence. In my case it took an "end of my ropes" scenario, and that was after having said the "sinner's prayer" umpteen times over many years.

When I sincerely prayed, I didn't even realize what I was doing at the time. I gave over, and he took over. The funny thing is, I used to be very "objective" about things....

[WRhine]

He said that the sins and wickedness of people in our nation are causing God to remove His hand of protection from our nation. He specifically mentioned homosexuals, lesbians, feminists, abortion and a few other sins.

I guess I am more than a little suspicious about people who claim to speak for God. To say that God decided to remove his hand of protection because certain corners of America have elements of extremism and condone perversion is making quite a statement. And it is not the kind of statement I would expect from people that claim to fervently believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. Where Christ preached forgiveness and peace we get double barrel shotgun blasts from Falwell and Robertson who preach that the horrific murderous assault on America is God's retribution for sin. Instead of trying to heal the nation's wounds as men of the cloth these two apparently are more interested in ripping open the wounds even more for their own little perverse interests.

I would take Falwell, Robertson and their ilk a lot more seriously if they, like Christ, took a vow of poverty. Oh but that would require that they lead by example. Can't do that when there is so much money to be made in using Religion as a platform for political power and a instrument of intimidation for the masses. It is said that true character reveals itself during times of crisis. Take a look at GW and then look at Falwell and Robertson and ask yourself, which of these people have demonstrated true character in this trying time for America?

[OWK]

I suppose if you wanted to test God, the easiest way would be to pray. But a prayer must come from the heart.

I think some of my background might surprise you.

Perhaps we'll talk about it another time.

I have to go for the night.

[apackof2]

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being

Doesn't seem very wise to rely on the "created" instead of the "Creator"

[He Rides A White Horse]

(even though they are weighty matters)

Very. I'll echo the thought regarding civil also.

[apackof2]

I got good money that says you're going to die whether you pay attention to God or not.

w We are not talking about a physical death here.
Of coarse we all are going to die a physical death, that is our bodies,
its our spirit that lives on forever in heaven or hell.

Take your pick

[ProudReaganite]

I was taiught that there is no heirarchy of sin. That each sin is equal. I believe this to be what is taught by most prodistent denominations. So if God removed his "protection" because of specific sins then what I was taught must not be true. Please clarify your position. are some sins spelled out by Jesus as worse than others? I cannot stop myself from sinning because of my sinful nature so perhaps I should attempt the lesser sins. Would this make me a Catholic? Please explain....

[dubyagee]

I think some of my background might surprise you. Perhaps we'll talk about it another time. I have to go for the night.

Uh, I've got it, Alex..........How do you keep a Freeper in suspense?

[apackof2]

My point about these people, is that they are absolutely convinced that they are right.
Every bit as convinced as you are, that you are right.

It is not a matter of who is right but the Truth

[Belial]

If God was going to punish America, he would have done it when we handed out blankets from smallpox victims to the Native Americans on the Trail of Tears.

Or he would have toasted us for hundreds of years of slavery...or then again, maybe not. Slavery is accepted in the Bible. Trying to make sense of fundie logic is pointless.

[Aedammair]

Bumpity bump bump!!!

[ProudReaganite]

I agree with you and think we should do the following 18:20 Ahab sent messengers to all the Israelites and had the prophets assemble at Mount Carmel. 18:21 Elijah approached all the people and said, "How long are you going to be paralyzed by indecision?29 If the Lord is the true God,30 then follow him, but if Baal is, follow him!" But the people did not say a word. 18:22 Elijah said to them:31 "I am the only prophet of the Lord who is left, but the prophets of Baal number four hundred fifty. 18:23 Let them bring us two bulls. Let them choose one of the bulls for themselves, cut it up into pieces, and place it on the wood. But they must not set it on fire. I will do the same to the other bull and place it on the wood. But I will not set it on fire. 18:24 Then you32 will invoke the name of your god, and I will invoke the name of the Lord. The god who responds with fire will demonstrate that he is the true God."33 All the people responded, "This will be a fair test."34 Lets cahllenge bin Laden! All of us together will use our faith to show him his God is powerless. We ahould not seek to use weapons but only the word of the Lord. Come on, if you have the faith of a mustard seed you can move mountains. Lets put our money where our mouth is. Onward Christian Soldiers, lets mount up and call fire down from heaven.

[WRhine]

Why in the world would God create us, only to damn us?

Such intelligent questions are outside the realm of a Bible Thumper's understanding. Expect to get hit with a ton of bible passages and doses of circular reasoning.

[rolling_stone]

Uh my question had to do with the creator not the created....try again...

They may believe(d) in a god , but it may have been a god of sun or stars or whatever, but it wasn't Christ. If that is so that they believed in a creator and would be saved, the same should apply to all other religions, since they believe in a creator.......or is it a matter of luck, choose door(religion) #1 #2 or #3, choose wrong and you are damned forever? Doesn't sound too just to me.

Which is the right Creator or were Muslims created by Mohammed, and Christians by God the father? Could there be more than one God? Fact is until you die you don't know for sure, you are acting on belief and faith (just your opinion)....as OWK put it better, those people believe in their religion as much as you in yours...how can a just God punish you for doing what you were taught or read or didn't read...makes little sense to me...which is it? door #1 #2 or #3?

[rolling_stone]

I'll pay to see that.....then again maybe those talibans think the fire is already raining down on them.

[Belial]

Expect to get hit with a ton of bible passages and doses of circular reasoning.

I think trapezoidal-helix reasoning is a better description.

After all, God created mankind, and told them not to eat from the Tree. Since he's omniscient he knew they would. When they did he had to act really angry, condemn them to pain, death and all kinds of suffering.

He also knew Lucifer would screw things up, but let this happen as well. Apparently so that he could send his son, who is also himself, but is also not him, down to earth to redeem man from the sin he knew he would commit in the first place.

And ultimately he'll come down to kill everyone, send most of us to the hot place, and everyone else floats on clouds singing the Hallelujah Chorus forever.

[Jorge]

"Why in the world would God create us, only to damn us?"

Such intelligent questions are outside the realm of a Bible Thumper's understanding. Expect to get hit with a ton of bible passages and doses of circular reasoning.

What seems to be outside the "realm" of your understanding is that the entire premise of such a question is erroneous.

God doesn't create people with the purpose of damning them. God creates people with free will, and the ability to choose their destiny...essentially to accept or reject Him.

The Bible clearly states that it is not God's will that "any man perish" but that ALL come to accept His wonderful and free salvation.

If anyone is damned it is not because that is what God wants.

The question itself impunes the very character of God. It implies that God is not good but rather some kind of sadistic monster. This crap comes from the Devil.

[RnMomof7]

Why do you say we have damned ourselves?

We are damned by our sin.. there is no man that can stand in Gods presence without the Grace and Mercy of God..

Only responding to Gods grace and the repentance of our sin can save us