(Bang_List) - Part-time officers buy machine guns to form small-town SWAT team

The Kansas City Star ^ | 11/6/01 | KIT WAGAR

[rface]

You gotta chuckle....

<]:^)

I don't know how to get this on the Bang_List...someone do this for me.

Ashland, Missouri

[fourdeuce82d]

"The ATF investigated the purchases and referred the matter to the U.S. attorney's office in Kansas City. But prosecutors demurred, saying the four men may have thought they were legitimate police officers. In that situation, prosecutors would have a tough time proving the men knowingly violated gun laws..."

sounds pretty harmless to me- as long as they just wanted to get their hands on some neat toys, and were using the SWAT thing as an excuse, I don't have a problem with it- I'd be nervous if part time hobby cops thought they were actually qualified to play Rambo.

[MassLengthTime]

Bang!

[harpseal]

I think their new police chief should have a copy of the US Constitution shoved down his throat. The simple fact is that the federal law that prohibits private citizens from owning newly manufacture machine guns is patently unconstitutional based upon the Fifth circuit ruling in US vs Emerson and even on the basis of the US vs Miller decision.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[cryptical]

Part-time LEO BANG!

[FreeTally]

Is that just your opinion, or do you think any court will actually start rulling that way?

[rockfish59]

now, where are those bikini girls with machine guns???

[E.Allen]

Klinger is a clown, I hope the next time he needs an officer in a small town he refuses help if the responding officer happens to be a part time officer.

Many small departments couldn't survive without having part time officers to cover shifts when the full timers are at school, or on vacation, or call off sick, or get injured, or quit (takes months to interview and hire new full timers).

I'm currently full time LEO, but was part time.

[Jerrybob]

I want to move there.

[harpseal]

Is that just your opinion, or do you think any court will actually start rulling that way?

It is at present my opinion as to US vs emerson that is pretty definite. The logic that flows from it is also very clear. the gun control act of 1986 has never been ruled upon by the US Supreme Court and I am at present of any pending challenges but I am hopeful that an appeal will come up soon.

Stay well - stay safe _ stay armed - Yorktown

[E.Allen]

Factual error in the article also, 33 states do allow private ownership of full autos, problem is they have to have been built before May 1986. That's when another stupid law was passed.

[harpseal]

sounds pretty harmless to me- as long as they just wanted to get their hands on some neat toys, and were using the SWAT thing as an excuse, I don't have a problem with it- I'd be nervous if part time hobby cops thought they were actually qualified to play Rambo.

Given the performance of some professional SWAT teams such as in Lubbock, TX and Columbine, COI do not think they could do much worse.

Would you tell a volunteer fire dept to not try and save lives if it was a really dangerous chemical fire?

Stay well - stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[harpseal]

Your points regarding killinger being a clown and the gun control act of 1986 are both exellent. I suppose Klinger thinks volunteer Fire departments should not be allowed to respond to chemical fires.

Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown

[Revelation 911]

"We're going in and clear the building."

Regardless of whos side your on - anyone making such a comment beforehand is courting two things:

Extra dead civilians

and

A feild day for trial lawyers representing any future dead perps or civi's as the junior Gmen gets thier butts sued

[Billthedrill]

Sorry, but this "law enforcement officers only" stuff chaps my hide - what it really means is "LEOs and criminals only, honest civilians need not apply."

Or maybe I just want an MP-5. Could be either, could be both...

[harpseal]

The field day for dead perps attorneys is possible I suppose but as to dead civies the Colubine, Colorado precedent should pretty much mandate a far more agressive attitude on dynamic entry to such a situation once hostages are being harmed. I expect an officer to go into harms way to protect children at the minimum.

I also expect an officer to have at his/her disposal the best available tools to do the job.

Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown

[Rifleman]

I live right down the road from Butler in Clinton, MO (named after deWitt Clinton, not the previous infestation of the WH) and had not heard of this. These guys scare me a lot less than the "real" SWATies who are mostly (with a few stellar exceptions) a bunch of Rambo wanabees.

Do they need MP5s? Nope, but they should be able to have them if they want them. Lots of small town PDs have automatic weapons in the gun locker.

[45Auto]

Interesting point. I agree that nearly all if not all, gun laws on both federal and state levels are unconstitutional in light of the 2nd (and the 14th); but I also bet that is one of the reasons the federal attorneys refused to prosecute these guys - they just don't want to open up a can of worms in terms of lower court precedent that might pave the way for a US SC review of the whole matter.

Be that as it may, I think the issue is nearly "ripe" for the SC, especially in light of the Emerson decision at least with regard to the goofy loss of Constitutional rights associated with the insane restraining order nonsense. There are now at least two conflicting rulings within the Federal Circuit Court system, dealing with the collective rights BS vs. the individual rights "standard model" , the 5th Circuit Emerson and another case from the (commie) 9th Circuit; I think its the 1992 case, "Fresno Rod and Gun Club v. Van de Kamp", the suit challenging the (first) rotten California AW ban. The 9th Circuit rejected the argument based on the 2nd, citing both Miller and the earlier Cruikshank decisions, both incorrectly, in my opinion.

[E.Allen]

You may be somewhat out of date on current protocols. PA state training for an active shooter now wants the first four officers on scene to have long weapons, form a fire team and go after the shooter and stop them. Leave the wounded for next responders.

This seems to be a legacy of Columbine, when policy required first officers on scene to wait for the "experts" while the cowards inside continued killing.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

The catch was that federal law prohibits the private ownership of the machine guns and new ammo clips with more than 10 rounds.

The Federal Firearms Act of 1934 requires purchase of an annual $200 tax stamp for ownership of a fully-automatic firearm. The Brady Act of 1994 prohibits the domestic manufacture of magazines of capacity greater than 10 rounds, but there are still plenty of grandfathered magazines on the market.