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To: JMJ333
I posted it because of a debate I've been having with another poster, and I wanted to show that Judaism is indeed a religion of love and that Christians do have an obligation toward Jews and Israel.

The article is garbage. The writer treats Jesus rather flippantly and seriously downplays His conflict with the Pharisees. This wasn't a debating society squabble. Calling Jesus a Pharisee is just downright goofy. While Jesus praised some individual Pharisees, He rejected their form of Judaism.

In addition, Christians owe nothing to Jews but the truth. In rejecting Christ, they are cut off. No real Christian can possibly maintain that someone who rejects Christ nevertheless retains the favor of God.

24 posted on 11/06/2001 10:59:54 AM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: hopespringseternal
Your screen name doesn't do your post justice.

In addition, Christians owe nothing to Jews but the truth. In rejecting Christ, they are cut off. No real Christian can possibly maintain that someone who rejects Christ nevertheless retains the favor of God.

Are you forgetting the second of the two great commandments? Love your neighbor as yourself. We owe them our friendship and to stand up for them when they are in danger of being eradicated from the planet by people who hate. I won't turn my back on them.

32 posted on 11/06/2001 11:10:47 AM PST by JMJ333
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To: hopespringseternal
Calling Jesus a Pharisee is just downright goofy.

Welllllll......I don't know if He was or not, but this article makes a good case for it. It doesn't really matter one way or the other, does it? It doesn't to me. But now that I think about it, I don't remember reading that He ever ate with the Sadducees and I don't think the Essenes are even mentioned. At least one of the disciples was a Zealot (Simon--not Simon Peter). It's been awhile since I've read the 4 Gospels, but Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus were Pharisees if I remember correctly.

40 posted on 11/06/2001 11:37:54 AM PST by wimpycat
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To: hopespringseternal
The article is garbage. The writer treats Jesus rather flippantly and seriously downplays His conflict with the Pharisees.

I didn't see anything flippant. Jesus did argue with the Pharisees but that doesn't mean that He Himself didn't take the style of the Pharisees. His use of parable is directly from the Pharisaic tradition. Jesus' issue with the Pharisees was where they were leading the people, not their approach or technique.

This wasn't a debating society squabble. Calling Jesus a Pharisee is just downright goofy.

Well, it's pretty well historically documented. But that's not saying that Jesus was hypocritical, like the Pharisees He chastised. It's just saying that he followed that sect of Judaism.

While Jesus praised some individual Pharisees, He rejected their form of Judaism.

He rejected honoring the Law for the Law's sake instead of honoring G-d through obedience to the Law. He made it clear that it was the hypocricy, not the form, that He objected to.

In addition, Christians owe nothing to Jews but the truth.

Read Romans 11-13.

In rejecting Christ, they are cut off.

No more so than any other person on earth.

No real Christian can possibly maintain that someone who rejects Christ nevertheless retains the favor of God.

Well, I know some real Christians who do. Then again, neither you nor I are judges of who is the real Christian. I believe that Jews need to receive Christ to come to the Father by Him, but I know real Christians who disagree.

Shalom.

44 posted on 11/06/2001 11:42:32 AM PST by ArGee
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To: hopespringseternal
You are eternally wrong hopesprinseternal! Christians owe their very faith and existence to the Jews, through them came the Word by which you must live, not only hear. Through them came Messiah Yeshua, whom you must get acquainted with. Jesus was not born of a church canon, He does not proceed from the "fathers of the faith". And He is coming back to Israel, not to New Hampshire, San Francisco, Europe, Asia or any Arab state. If you are truly a Christian, you need to repent of your anti-semitism and look into the Word to discover your personal Hebraic roots. The Bible which you may have read states: Paul speaking:

"I say then, has God cast away His people (the Jews)? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He forenew.....I say, have they stumbled that they sould fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles (Christians among them)......For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?...If some of the branches (the Jews) were broken off, and you (Christians) being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches (the Jews). But if you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you....their hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles(people like you hopespringseternal) has come in. And all ISRAEL will be saved. Read Romans 11.

You need to know that Your God says about Israel, repentance is available to you for judging them as discarded, praying for the peace of Jerusalem and for God's plans to be established Israel is wisdom and obedience to the One who saved your soul.

52 posted on 11/06/2001 11:48:10 AM PST by Hila
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To: hopespringseternal
Do not be quick to judge. Read Romans 11 especially verses 25 and 26. We should not be arrogant, for we are grafted into Israel. Our prayers and acts of kindness should never cease for the Jewish people. I personally know Christian Jews, And support the work of Jews for Jesus; but I personally call him by his Hebrew name Yahshua which means Yahweh is salvation.
198 posted on 11/07/2001 8:44:25 AM PST by Infobabe
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