[BobinIL]

I have owned numerous .223 and 308 assult rifles over the years and the mini 14's I have had experience with were light handy and very reliable weapons but not accurate enough to commit suicide with. I would opt for the AR 15 varants. Not that much more money but way more accurate and tons of add-ons.

[Alas Babylon!]

Don, I have the Mini 30 Ranch Rifle. Shoots like a dream, 7.62x39mm is cheap, and it packs more punch. Plus it's a Ruger, and built to the same high standards as the Mini 14. If I buy another rifle, I'm getting a Mini 14. I think it makes sense to have both!

[munk]

rates of twist changed twice that I know of. You can probably use heavier than 55 gr,at least 62 nato. One I had would do 1.5 to 2" at 100 yards. Arguably, its action may be more reliable in sand than the AR variants. For most home/ranch defense uses, the more accurate AR would not be missed. The round is more than sufficient, though I prefer the .308 The comment that it goes in like a pencil and exits like an orange is not neccesarily true with mil ammo; it does not tumble until nearly the thickness of a man. Softpoints would be another story. Check for feeding with mags. munk

[Travis McGee]

You are very fortunate. The mini-14 is a nearly perfect rifle for its intended use which is rapid fire at close to intermediate ranges, (out to 200 yards). Here are some of the "pros" of the mini-14, in no special order:

/1/ With the money you save buying a mini-14 instead of an AR-15 variant, you can buy two minis, or a trunkload of ammo for practice or for WTSHTF. Two people firing two rifles is way way more effective than one guy firing a slightly better AR-15 variant, you can cover each other during movement etc.

/2/ They are "PC". Some states will not let you own an unregistered AR-15 "assault rifle" with its eee-villl pistol grip etc, but think that mini-14s are just dandy. This means you can take your mini to the range and get practice, as opposed to hiding your AR-15 from the BATFags.

/3/ They are very robust and will feed most any ammo, assuming good mags. They will work when soaking wet, they have no thin gas tube to clog and malfunction if you need to cross a river and fire in shoulder deep water. Don't laugh, the best place to shoot is where the bad guys are NOT looking, like out across the swamp behind them.

/4/ All .223s in general are great because you can carry over twice the ammo for the same weight as a .308 battle rifle. A typical load is 13 X 30 round mags, four per ammo pouch on your belt, plus one in the rifle. 13 X 30 = 390 rounds. This compares to 9 X 20 round mags in .308 in the same pouches, plus one in the rifle, for 180 rounds. Since the .308 battle rifle will typically weigh 2-4 pounds more than the .223 rifle, give the .223 rifleman a few more 30 round mags. If you are not being followed by a Humvee or helo resupplying you with ammo, (you won't), then what you can carry may have to last a LONG time. Better 400+ rounds of .223 than 180 rounds of .308 for the same weight which YOU will have to carry. It's not armchair ballistics theory, it's pounds on your belt and back.

/4/ .223, at 3,000+fps and very narrow, goes through kevlar like a knife through butter, nuff said. Shotgun pellets and pistol ammo, (including pistol ammo firing SMGs) will not.

Is an AR-15 rifle better? Without a doubt. Do they both fire the same round? Yes. Are they both effective in a running gun battle at street distances out to 200 yards? You bet. But I'd rather have two riflemen with minis working in concert than one with an AR-15 any day, and the cost is the same either way.

Now putting a scope on a mini is kind of debatable, because the rifle's inherent accuracy is not that good. I'd put a red-dot sight on the ranch rifle, nothing is faster on target! And it works by itself in any light where you can see a target. Plus, you can mount a cheap night vision scope in any detachable mount behind the red dot sight for night use. The NV scope does not even need a reticle, you will see the red dot (it will look green but work the same) just fine, and be able to hit targets at full effective range at night. This is critical, since if your advrsary has a NV capabiltiy and you don't, you are screwed. And if you do and he doesn't, HE is screwed.

One downside of the minis is the magazines, they suck, and are costly and hard to find. Get at least 6 for each rifle. What you don't have in accuracy you must be ready to make up in rapid suppressive fire.

If you shop the net at sportsmansguide.com or ammoeric.com or cheapasdirt.com you will be able to get decent ammo at near $0.10 per round in bulk.

Hope that this helped.

[PatrioticAmerican]

You won't get many straight answers to your question. People have their favorites and want to tell you about them. I actually like that. That can be informative and entertaining. Anyway, a Ruger Mini-14 is not a bad choice. I suppose you got a great deal on them, so all the better. The Mini-14 needs work to be a battle weapon, but you said personal defense. In that role, the Mini-14 works well. Some Mini-14s jam a bit, but shoooting the thing will help you learn to clear jams quickly. Some Mini-14s never seem to jam, so practice with it and find out. The 223 makes a great close combat round and does better than most handgun ammo as far as penetration is concerned. The 223 penetrates building materials less than handgun ammo, so it is safer in dense communities of homes, but it does a great deal of damage to humans. It is cheap compared to many other ammo choices, and plentiful. I'd say you have a good weapon and an excellent caliber choice.

[SBprone]

Don, you are well armed with the Mini if it feeds properly with your magazines and if you put in some range time learning to shoot it, supported and offhand, and get acquainted with its accuracy. 200yds is probably pushing it as far as accuracy but it will still hit plenty hard at that distance.

Don't bet your life on these rifles until you have thoroughly checked out the whole weapon system consisting of your rifles, your mags, your ammo and your sights. It's no good finding out in an emergency situation that your scope rings are loose or that your cases are sticking in the chamber. You may also consider a sling for prone but you need to spend some range time learning to sling up quickly and comfortably.

Also, see how the rifles eject. I have been pelted so hard on the noggin by guys with new Minis firing Russian steel case ammo that I refuse to set up within six firing points on the right side of a Mini. A little gunsmith work on the ejector spring would fix this.

Have fun with them!

[KitJ]

Another great gun thread! Let me share some thoughts, abuse at will....

You are discussing a semi-auto rifle for defensive purposes. You can't let that be the end of the conversation. When you are considering a firearm's properties, and how it will apply to your specific needs, think of you needs in "rings".

The first ring is 'immediate'. That means anything you have might work: .22, .32, .380, 9mm, etc. (a .25, as Jeff Cooper states, may only antagonize your opponent and make him emotional...). This ring is to about the standard 7 yards. (I can't help but put a plug in for a compact .45...).
The next ring is out to about 25 yards. Maybe a nine, but again, .45 rules.
Next is 25-100 yards. Here, shotguns rule.
Then comes the 100-200 yard range. This is the forte of the average battle rifle, and deer rifle. Your 7.62x39 is about the equivalent of your Winchester .30-30. Keep that in mind, you SKS and AK owners! (for thread fidelity, also the Mini-s).
Beyond 200 yards, you can inflict lethal wounds on your deer-sized opponents, but usually only by chance. Here you need a thirty caliber rifle. A bolt action .30 cal will suit nicely unless you are facing the Jihad-hoarde. FN-FALs do well for hoarde suppression, as do M1s.
The bottom line, and my recommendation for an arsenal is: .45 ACP for close, 12 ga. for intermediate, .30 cal for long (semi- or bolt).
The trick is to determine what your specific needs are based on your anticipated situation.

Flame on!

Kit.

[xm177e2]

You can always have your mini-14 upgraded if you are willing to pay a couple hundred dollars... but for that price, an AR would serve your needs far better.

[xm177e2]

For people who want a little more range from their AR-15s, has anyone ever considered making one in 6.5x55mm? You can get Federal ammo for that in 120gr that has the same exact trajectory as their .308 168gr, and it has more power than the .223 (although the .223 has plenty).

I know there is the SR-25, but has anyone tried to make an AR in an intermediate caliber? I guess 7.62x39mm is basically intermediate, but the 6.5x55mm would have more range.

If you had an SR-25, how difficult would it be to have it set to accept 6.5x55mm? (I don't own an SR-25, this is a hypothetical, if I did have an SR-25, I don't think I would do anything to it!)

[Jeff Head]

Mini 14 is a GREAT gun. I also have two and have put many thousands of rounds down range along with my wife and my two boys.

After many rounds they tend to heat up and lose some accuracy because the barrell is pretty light. But I shoot both of mine open sighted and can compenmsate fairly readily. There's a place in Lubbock Texas that retrofits a tactical barrel onto them to alleviate this.

Other than that ... very reliable, bnever had one jam.

Having said that, my favorite rifle of this sort is still my FN-FAL. Love that .308 round!

Regards.

[wcbtinman]

At a minimum, the Mini-14 can be used to "liberate" many other, larger, higher capacity weapons, from the 'opposition'.

Personally, having fired many, many rounds through a Mini-14, I think they are a great little gun, with lots of potential.

[advocate10]

.223 is having a sale right now.

[Eagle Eye]

Consider getting one or two mini-30's. Common cartridge with AK's adn SKS's. Same design and function of the mini-14 with just a little more punch. Mine works fine.

[Kevin Curry]

What a great thread! This is the kind of the thread that could never ever see the light of a CRT screen over at Salon or Democraticunderground. And yet . . . and yet, probably more than few liberal lizards lurk on threads such as this one, secretly coveting a Ruger Mini of their very own.

[advocate10]

 

 

 

 

 

Ruger MINI-30

Best Buy Guns Price - $489.95
Expires: November 10, 2001

Model #: Mini Thirty Autoloading Rifle
Type: Rifle
Finish: Blue
Receiver: Blue
Stock: American Hardwood
Sights: Front: Ramp Rear: Folding Peep
Barrel Length: 18 1/2"
Overall Length: 37 1/8"
Weight: 6lbs 14oz
Additional Features 1: 1" steel scope rings
Additional Features 2: Twist: 1 in 10 RH
Caliber: 7.62X39
Capacity: 5 round detachable box magazine
Action: Semi-Automatic
# of Mags: 1

Best Buy Guns - 120 South Elm - PO Box 26 - Hemlock, MI 48626 - (989)642-4867
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">

[prambo]

Think FN-FAL and DS Arms (www.dsarms.com). The AR-15 is a great little assault rifle. The FAL is a true battle rifle; a little dated, but very accurate, dependable, heavier punch (7.62 NATO vs. .223).

Better yet - get both - why get all worked up over such a quandry!

prambo

[culpeper]

They are excellent guns, I've put custom sites on mine making it pretty darn accurate without a scope. With FMJ ammo I've fired rounds through 1/4 inch steel plate at 50 yards. And don't worry , as a man stopper, I'd like to see anyone get up after getting hit properly with a .223. If you would like to get an idea of the energy transfer of a .223 round get a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with motor oil then get back about 50 feet at least and fire one round. The bucket will literally explode from the transfer of energy. I've done this with pistol rounds and a .45-70 rifle and none of these had even close to the effect. Plus .223 ammo is alot cheaper than .308. Mini 14's are also alot easier to clean and maintain compared to an AR-15 and alot cheaper. To round out your arsenal I would recommend a 12 gauge pump and a Colt 1911 pistol.

[lambsquarter]

Get yourself a 12 gauge with buck shot for in close work it will rip a man completey in half. Then for medium distances the ranch rifle is a good choice lead is a little light for quick kills tough. .308 Win would be my choice makes bigger hole in your asailor, the ass-ole will give up guicker. Handgun chioce would be the 45 gov. Nothing like the fireball from one of these in dim light its a real stopper stay away from the spray and pray 9mm.

[G-Bear]

Some folks refer to the .223 as a "poodle shooter." I have never had the need to shoot any human with anything, but I have had to shoot feral dogs with both the .223 FMJ and the .30-06 FMJ. The damage is identical between both rounds.

As far as the Mini-14 goes, I rate it superior to the AR-15 in all ways. Proven Garand design, all steel parts, and best of all the sights are where they ought to be on a rifle, and not three inches in the air on a stupid "handle." Stupid because (A) if you are carrying a gun you ought to carry it in a ready position, and (B) the higher sights make you stick your head up too far to shoot!

You did good with a Mini-14.

[arm958]

.223 is an excellent caliber, and very lethal. If I could afford an AR I would probably buy one. The Mini-14 has a good reputation too, but Bill Ruger's 5 round mags kind of piss me off. Personally, I trust my life with an old French MAS 49/56 semi-auto. It's a wierd caliber (7.5 mm French), but I reload so it doesn't matter. My point is that if you have a reliable weapon that you feel comfortable shooting, you're doing fine! Just make sure you have some ammo stashed away. If you have a $2,000 rifle and only a box of 20 or 50 cartridges you aren't very prepared.