What it was like to jump from the World Trade Center on 09-11-01

VARIOUS ^ | 10-01-01 | Editorial Staff

[angcat]

oh boy do i agree not even close we will never do it the right way either because we are ass kissers.... they will get us again and many americans will die then we will nuke them................

[zeaal]

Although we were unable to understand the language of UNIVISION coverage of 9/11 we did watch it. Their staff and contributors were able to get a greater variety of photos and videos. Like everyone, we continually sought out more information in the first few days after 9/11 to fully understand what exactly happened and try to come to terms with it. We switched from channel to channel in rotation to get as much information as possibile. That rotation included UNIVISION.

[Grig]

It was a long time ago I posted that, and in that time I have not changed my mind one bit. True that nobody knows what they would do in a situation they have never been in, but if it was me I hope that as long as I was alive I would do what I could to stay alive, even if only for a moment longer. If you feel different about it fine, we can just agree to disagree.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

but I would rather die fighting to get out than to jump.

These people had 2 choices. Jump or burn. That's it. Anyone that had a chance of fighting their way out would not have jumped.

[Grig]

Really? Can you cite a scripture passage backing up your assertion?

Matt 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1John3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Jer 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Christianity is based on the notion of man fallen from grace, out of favor with God, unable to help himself, unable to save himself...and God's free gift to man is in the person of Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world.

I agree that man does not have the ability to save himself and must look to Christ for that salvation, but that doesn't mean we are not obligated to do the best we can. Do you think that EVERYONE will be saved? I assume not, so in that case, who will be saved and who will not be? Will God just pick at random who is and isn't saved? No, the choices and actions of a person's life will determin if Christ saves them or not, if they do not choose to accept Christ, they will not be saved by him.

The Psalms are full of entreaties by a helpless David to God for deliverance from his enemies. God helped him when he was unable to help himself.

Did David just sit on his behind and expect God to do everything for him? Did he disband his army and put away the weapons? No, he assembled his armies and went into battle. He had faith that if he did the best he could, God would bless his efforts with victory.

My reading of scripture tells me that God is the helper of the helpless.

Yes, but he is not the helper of those too lazy, or too faithless to do what they can.

I ask you, would there be any point in helping someone who doesn't need help? If you're already helping yourself, why do you need God?

Helping your self and doing your best doesn't mean you can do enough by yourself to get it done. God is there to bridge the gap between what we can do and what he wants to be done, but if we refuse to do anything at all and expect God to just hand it to us we will be disapointed, he doesn't want us to be a bunch of spoiled children. I don't expect my little kids to wash their dirty cloths, but I do expect and demand that they put them in the hamper. If they don't help themselves that way, it doesn't get washed.

Those people didn't "give up." They reacted primally to intense heat, the likes of which you cannot imagine.

I don't intend to pass any kind of judgement on those who did jump, I don't know their hearts and minds so I leave it to God to judge them. For ME to jump however, I would have to come to a point where I would have to think that God was not capable of preserving my life, or give up any idea that he would, and I certainly hope I have more faith in God than that.

[Grig]

These people had 2 choices. Jump or burn. That's it.

I would say they had a choice between jumping (certain death) waiting around to burn (certain death) or in trying the best they could to get out somehow (very likely death, very small possibility of survival).

I would rather latch on to that slim hope of a miraculous escape and try for it and wind up burning to death anyway, than to jump or wait and find out on judgment day that I could have gotten out if I tried. That's MY choice and there is no reason for you be upset about my choosing something other than you.

[Teacher317]

Never Forget

[MickMan51]

To me, choosing to jump to my death instead of looking for some way to live just a little bit longer would mean . . .

Awww, SHADDUP ! ! You sir are an F'in' idiot. These people are not "choosing", they are dying, and not by choice, same as you would. Just shut your pie hole.

[Palladin]

You tell him, Mick! He has made numerous assinine statements on this thread. I wouldn't mind too much, but imagine how awful his statements make the loved ones of the dead feel. That they made a "wrong choice", etc. What a blathering idiot!

[sandydipper]

Thanks for the photos - we will not forget!

[MickMan51]

Thanks, it's unbelievable how clueless some people are ! !

[Grig]

MickMan51:Awww, SHADDUP ! ! You sir are an F'in' idiot. These people are not "choosing", they are dying, and not by choice, same as you would. Just shut your pie hole.

Palladin:You tell him, Mick! He has made numerous assinine statements on this thread. I wouldn't mind too much, but imagine how awful his statements make the loved ones of the dead feel. That they made a "wrong choice", etc. What a blathering idiot!

You two hardly come off as great thinkers. Was there some person up there throwing people out of windows against their will, were they accidentaly falling out of the windows? If not, then they made a choice to jump. I didn't say they made a wrong choice, I said I hope that's not the choice I would have made. I can't relate to making that choice.

You are the ones telling ME that my choice would be wrong, but I bet there were some there that could have jumped and didn't, who tried to the end to find some way to suvive, and what you are saying to me is no less awful to the loved ones of those who didn't jump than mine are to those who did. You basicly call them 'an F'in' idiot' for not jumping when they could have.

If you are so insecure that the idea of somebody making a different choice than you would have upsets you that much, tough.

[MickMan51]

blah blah blah

1) Don't put words in my mouth

2) If you think these people are "choosing" to jump, you are hereby a certified IDIOT.

3) Zip it. (I repeat myself).

[iceskater]

HBO is running a memorial next Sunday, May 26 at 9 pm CST. I've read some advance reviews, and there will be video of jumpers.

It is supposed to be chilling.

Thanks for the reminder.

Never forget.....

[Jim Scott]

We do tend to forget, and we do need to be reminded. We especially need to be reminded that nothing, zero, nadda, zip, of any real consequence has been done to prevent another event to need to be reminded of.

I agree that we do need the reminder as we all have short retention spans, it would seem. I disagree that absolutely nothing has been done to prevent this from happening again. That's not true.

From the demise of the Taliban and new leadership in Afghanistan (that put bin Laden on the run) to many arrests of suspected terrorists in europe and elsewhere to the freezing of terrorist-front bank accounts (containing millions) to strengthing of airline cockpit doors and Homeland Security measures and many behind-the-scenes thwarting of terrorist plans, much has been done in a short time, and then, we rant about civil liberties being abridged!

While I agree that wholesale deportation and/or detention of illegal Arab immigrants should be going on - and isn't - I cannot join you in painting the Bush administration with so broad a brush as you use to claim 'nothing' has been done to prevent another terrorist attack on the U.S.

Terrorism is difficult to stop. Ask Israeli's. While there may not be another 767 used as a missile to kill Americans, there probably will be another attack. It's a huge country with 270 million people and lots of freedom. That sort of complicates things and the Bush team is doing a lot to prevent attacks but they're not God and the FBI, CIA and local police can't know eveything or be everywhere.

The photos are chilling and do serve a grim purpose, though.

[MissAmericanPie]

How about Homeland Security using Senior citizens to check cargo containers? How about the fact that 50,000 visa's were issued to people in terrorist countries alone between 9-11 and 3-02? Students from terrorist countries are still flooding in, attending flight schools.

The borders are still just as easily crossed as pre 9-11, the puny measures offered up by Bush and passed by the Congress are so removed from being any kind of an answer as to be inraging.

So the INS is notified that a student didn't show up for classes, what then? They already have far more than 300,000 lose and long gone that they can't put their fingers on now.

I don't need to hear that "things are going on behind the scenes", oh yeah? What? How many people that have been picked up have been deported? zero? Oh well, since terrorists targets seem to be focused on D.C. I guess it shouldn't concern me.

[Jim Scott]

I see that there is no point in attempting to have a rational discussion with those who ignore all the obvious steps the Bush administration has taken against terrorism and prefer to wave their arms shouting about how enraged they are. O.K. Don't let facts get your way.

It must be more rewarding to be angry all the time and blame the President for just about anything and everything that 'enrages' you. Even my partial agreement regarding the deportation of Arabs has no effect, you still get enraged. Sigh. Oh well, I tried.

[jrewingjr]

You have stated and restated your position probably about a dozen times now without really saying anything substantially new. No, I'm not going to go back and get an exact count; I couldn't bear it.

If I had the choice of jumping to my certain death or having to hear you restating the same old position ad nauseum in relative safety; I'm thinking that I would jump. You have beaten the dead horse and hijacked this thread and turned it into your own little plaything. You have now become the Tabitha Soren of this subject.

Congratulations, Champ.

[Palladin]

We must be doing something right or that crazy shoe-bomber would not have been stopped in time.

[Interesting Times]

Here's a little thought experiment that may help you grasp what is obvious to everyone else.

Imagine you are standing in front of your electric stove.

The right front burner is turned all the way up, and is glowing a cheerful orange color.

Now put your hand on the burner.

I should also mention that an unsympathetic person is pointing a Glock 21 at your aorta, and if you can't keep your hand on the burner for 30 seconds, he's going to pull the trigger.

1...2...3...

Oops, you 'chose' to take your hand off the burner.

Bang.