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To: Alas
Show me where in either the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence where the foudners are addressing other than those who will make up the country, the citizen owners.

Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
What part of "all men" are you having trouble with?

Constitution:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

"All men" have rights. The Constitution protects those rights.

It is a sham to claim that you believe in rights, and then cavalierly attempt to deny them to anyone who isn't a US citizen.

35 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:16 PM PST by Dan Day
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To: Dan Day
All of what you post is true, however, it is also true that the Constitution stops at our borders.
36 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:26 PM PST by Gumlegs
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To: Dan Day; Alas
"Show me where in either the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence where the foudners are addressing other than those who will make up the country, the citizen owners."

Here is a constitutional lawyers perspective on non-citizens rights
"As far as the Constitution is concerned, aliens, which is to say non-citizens, are here at this country's pleasure.
They have no constitutional right to be here."
Author: Ann Coulter Future Widows of America: Write your Congressman
51 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:53 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: Dan Day
In the Declaration, "all men are created equal" implies that no man is born a king. In other words, it repudiates hereditary monarchies. The "liberty" it speaks of is the right of men not to live under governments of these kings, but rather to form governments of their own, as is stated in the Declaration:
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Aliens are considered to have the rights in the Declaration. But that means that they come from another place where another "government has been instituted among them". They do not have the rights delineated in the Constitution - the Constitution is the framework of the government of the CITIZENS of the United States.

If Aliens have the same rights as citizens under the Constitution, then second amendment rights apply. In which case, the Mexican Army is completely within its "constitutional" rights to march across the border under arms and take up residence in Tucson. Plus they get to vote. You buy that?

Your interpretation of the usage of the word "persons" was argued successfully in one famous case: Plyler v. Doe. But Plyler rests on the 14th, and a comment by Justice Douglas that the founders really did mean just persons, as in anyone who happens to be in the country under whatever auspices. Justice Rehnquist disagreed with him at the time and said so. To say I disagree is to put it mildly.

The Declaration is a human rights document but the Constitution is not. The Constitution is the framework of a "government among men", i.e., Citizens, and is amendable. The Declaration is not.

99 posted on 11/16/2001 5:30:27 PM PST by Regulator
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